Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

It is the dismissal of people older than posters being dismissed as their own person unless it benefits them as in grandparents have to be used as childcare or 'I will only visit the IL'S when it suits me' type thing

And the 'they can look after my child but I am the boss and they have to it my way as I have anxiety' there will always be people who also only care about older people when it suits them agreeing

So it just reinforces they are free to be as rude as they want and the cycle continues

I think ageism towards older people is only picked up constantly on here because the main demographic of the site is in that bracket. Constant comments of how entitled young people are, how lazy they are and don't work hard, anecdotes that every single young person you know has fancy cars and holidays so must be doing fine. Utter bullshit. The ageism towards younger people is never called out!

I'm mid 30's so the generation all the papers are saying the interest rates and cost of living is going to hit the hardest. I'm fortunate to own my own home (well mortgaged) because I'm fortunate enough to live in a cheap part of the UK and both me and my partner have continued to work full time since having a child. My student debt is something like £50,000. I worked all the way through university and since I turned 16 and on our incomes we should be more than comfortable. But the truth is life is looking pretty bleak! I'm public sector so the only way to get a decent pay rise is to get a promotion. I'll be lucky if there even if a state pension by the time I'm looking to retire. And all we get thrown at us is how lazy we are and entitled and expect everything on a plate. Not the case at all! It just grates to be patronised by people who benefitted from so much which just does not exist now and who continue to act smug when it was just pure luck in the majority of cases that they benefitted rather than financial savvy.

Nailed it. It's The Other, onto which all the things one hates, fears or envies can be projected.

And many, many younger people, but thanks for neatly illustrating MN lazy ageism.

The last few decades have seen a massive transfer from the value of labour to the value of assets. Good for those who already had assets, bad for those who didn’t and are reliant on the power of that labour for wealth creation. Ultimately it’s the process that has created this transfer (
that needs to be amended but that’s not going to happen while we all just finger point at each other.

What's ageist about it? Many older people have spewed bile into the world and are now reaping what they sowed, is it ageist to state facts?

Just look at the way many older people speak about young people in the media or online, claiming we're all workshy entiled layabouts becuase we weren't fortunate enough to be born into a time when one average salary could buy a family home and afford a good standard of living. Or calling us woke snowflakes for caring about the environment and equality.

Granted it's not every older person, but as a generation they're the one's who've fucked the planet and society, yet they expect the younger generations to be the ones to suffer and sacrifice while refusing to do the same themselves.

Take the state pension for example, we know it's unsustainable in it's present form, in fact if the triple lock isn't removed very soon those of us under 40 face having to reach 74 before being eligible to recieve a state pension, while also having to pay more in to fund current pensions.

Younger people get to work longer, pay more, and revieve less so that older can keep the status quo. Oh and life expectancy is decreasing and health is worsening so we get to be sicker and die younger too, and that's not even starting to talk about the environemental mess we've been left with. Is it any wonder we're disillusioned and angry?

That's like saying sexism is about either sex. The terms were introduced to express certain concepts and experiences - and while ageism has been co-opted to include discrimination against young people, it is primarily about and was initially coined to cover discrimination against older people and groups.

Why doesn't empathy apply for both or after a certain age are you just no longer feckless?

Because, after a certain age, you have little to no options to improve your lot.

Young people have youth on their side, boundless energy (usually), and have options to retrain, study, and reinvent themselves, and are rarely completely unemployable - as many older and old people find themselves to be considered.

There was no lesson to learn. People over 60 now didn’t revile their elders. It’s a 21st century phenomenon. And, as a pp has pointed out, one which is nurtured by politicians as blaming older people for the current shitshow distracts from the real culprits. It’s a clever trick.

My parents’ elders suffered through wars. Then they had a long period of peace and prosperity.

Now after the prosperity is pandemic and climate plus larger aging population

It’d likely impact how generations feel.

Because, after a certain age, you have little to no options to improve your lot.

Of course but I think it's odd that so many think huge swathes of the population are "feckless" but every single older person was always fiscally responsible, it's bullshit.

People over 60 now didn’t revile their elders. It’s a 21st century phenomenon

Of course there will be some over 60s who dislike their elders, there's always been shit parents for one!

Todays young people get frustrated at older people because they feel gov policies are more beneficial to them. There's also a lot of dismissing of young people experiences because "I grew up with an outside toilet & didn't have a phone". And younger voters feel older people voted for Brexit & the Tories. Now this doesn't mean every older person did before I get a ton of replies.

You’d be pretty churlish to revile those who fought world wars for your freedom

Plus the baby boom and prosperity came after. The young people were the large group.

Not all people - we’re all generalising here

I doubt Brexit and now is the bumpiest it’ll get for next generation though, very sadly. Things will heat up as climate does - ie volatility that goes with it

Of course it’s bullshit. All generalisations are. Our family includes a couple who are on target to pay their mortgage off by their mid 30s, they’re going to be as rich as Croesus in their old age.

You’d be pretty churlish to revile those who fought world wars for your freedom

It’s pretty churlish to revile the generation of women who fought for equal pay, maternity rights, decent childcare and equal opportunities for women, yet here we are …

All generalisations are. Our family includes a couple who are on target to pay their mortgage off by their mid 30s, they’re going to be as rich as Croesus in their old age.

But statistically certain things are harder now....

I don’t revile anyone tbh

When and where we are born is luck. I feel pretty lucky, it could be far worse

I don’t think older people owe me anything. At the same time I can see younger people are inheriting tough stuff. I don’t mean Brexit here, people still in EU are showing dissatisfaction in other ways.

It’s pretty churlish to revile the generation of women who fought for equal pay, maternity rights, decent childcare and equal opportunities for women, yet here we are …

I don't understand this point. Do you think young people shouldn't be annoyed about certain things because of the above? I know you think they should only blame politicians but wrongly or rightly there is a feeling that older people vote for these policies. I'm middle aged but I do think the country has shafted the young & I don't know what they aren't more up in arms tbh.

why not what.

Do you think young people shouldn't be annoyed about certain things because of the above?

No, but I think they should recognise that the generation they despise has fought battles for benefits they take for granted. And benefits they didn’t have themselves. I also think it’s ridiculous to imply that an entire generation votes the same way. We don’t. Of course if young people voted at all it would help.

And before you say “Oh Brexit”, it was largely my parents’ generation that voted leave and they’re dying. That’s why another referendum now would be very likely to produce a different result.

There certainly needs to be conversations about how we fund the NHS/social care going forward, whether it's right to move out state pension when healthy life expectancy hasn't increased & is dependent on where you live. Conversations around immigration because of job shortages, low birth rates, ageing population etc. Every conversation seems to descend into arguments about ageism though.

Thank god my parents are immigrants so my dc have a few options.

This is ridiculous. You are generalising about vague references to what ‘older’ people have voted for, yet reserving the right to discount other things that (in general) older people fought and voted for.

Also - what precisely have you done to change the world? Most people just live their lives within the system they are born into. We vote every four or five years and choose from what’s available. I’d love to hear what you (and anyone else indulging in this oldie hate) have done that’s so different. Somewhere between ‘Fuck all’ and ‘Not a lot would’ be my guess.

Tbf if I had to pick being part of the generation fighting in world wars or those who got rights for women, it’s not going to be a hard choice.

We do lack just straight talking on the issues around NHS etc. Frustratingly so. But they need the votes, either side, if they want to win, we seem worse than some other countries on this, maybe it’s our media playing a role

Yes we owe them so much .