Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

It impacts on everyone with an income over £1275. Including pensioners who have no opportunity to increase their income.

my house was almost 3 times my salary and it was a crap hole!

In my home town you can buy a decent 3 bed for £140k - so not everywhere is stupid money - I DO feel for this generation - housing is a shit show all round - but I think the point is it wasn't easy for us in our late 20's/early 30's either - we still had limited funds and options

Wage growth has impact all of us - not just the young - sadly

They can’t afford to cut taxes. Have you seen the size f the national debt and the amounts of interest we’re paying on it? Tax cuts are off the table.

Does it matter? I mean people voted for Brexit based on the millions that would be diverted into the NHS. That was bullshit but still a crowd pleaser & obviously never materialised!

but I think the point is it wasn't easy for us in our late 20's/early 30's either - we still had limited funds and options

Again I never said it wasn't but my point again is many things have got even harder.

And these debates never go anywhere just round in circles.

but it's subjective - harder for who? My daughters employer purchased a London flat for each of his children (Millennials) out right - they are fine

It's totally dependant on other things - class, family back ground, race, sex, disability etc - and it always has been - saying one generation had it easier than another is simplistic - some people have always had it easier in every generation - and some of us still struggle

Well yes, it does matter. The Tories are supposed to be the party of fiscal probity and Sunak has been a cheerleader for it. How would suddenly borrowing yet more money for tax cuts (bribes for votes) sit with that?

but it's subjective - harder for who? My daughters employer purchased a London flat for each of his children (Millennials) out right - they are fine

I'm talking about the average person, of course some people are fine. Can you comprehend that some of your peers would have been fine too?

It's totally dependant on other things - class, family back ground, race, sex, disability etc - and it always has been - saying one generation had it easier than another is simplistic - some people have always had it easier in every generation - and some of us still struggle

Of course there's nuance but statistically social mobility hasn't improved...

Well yes, it does matter. The Tories are supposed to be the party of fiscal probity and Sunak has been a cheerleader for it. How would suddenly borrowing yet more money for tax cuts (bribes for votes) sit with that?

I don't understand your argument @Blossomtoes?

Of course it doesn't matter to some people despite it mattering to you, is that a shock?

The Tories are supposed to be the party of fiscal probity and Sunak has been a cheerleader for it

Lol, well I guess some people might believe that & some will have benefited from their policies.

I actually think the scrapping of inheritance tax is a ludicrous way to win votes as only a small percentage are even impacted but many people vote for what they think benefits then so in those terms it's an easy win.

Are you saying when it comes to the election there won't be any bribes or incentives?

I am 70, still work and hoping to upsize to refurb a bigger property.

I agree with you OP. Giving a political example, the disaster of Brexit is blamed on older people who voted Leave instead of the higher proportion of younger people who did not bother to vote (and if they had, probably the result would have been Remain).

I really don't understand why younger people don't vote in their hordes . I remember as a child going to my school with my mum to vote and all my school friends were there with their parents .
I also remember my first time to vote(18) , I never even considered not voting , it was my right.

This. Most people moaning on this thread wouldn't bat an eyelid at all the comments geared towards younger people

Are you saying when it comes to the election there won't be any bribes or incentives?

I don’t see how there can be. There’s no money.

Aren't parents going to be 'bribed' at the next election by free child care ?

The trouble is Mumsnet is full of the following views:

1. have babies in 20s too young, 40d too old
2. if you’re overweight it’s because you’re a lazy greedy cow who is a drain on society
3. over 50 you’re worthless and a drain and shouldn’t leave the house or expect anyone to love you
4. if you earn less than £100k you’re thick and lazy
5. have any kind of spiritual beliefs you’re stupid
6. anyone over 50 has their house given to them
7. Anyone inheriting money should gift it to the Labour Party

Not just elderly.. try saying here you are stay at home mum and happy and want to be one- lol

🤣🤣 So true ! My parents bought their council house in the 80's . I will inherit , so bad .

Its mainly fear. Of our own decline and death. As long as we're still able to other older people, mock them, despise them, dismiss them, we can keep them and what they represent at a distance. The youth worship thats also very prevalent on here is the other side of the same coin.
As far as boomer bashing goes, it's a fairly typical response to scarce resources, people tend to naturally be resentful of those who have something they don't.
Some older people don't help the situation unfortunately, as there can be a stubborn refusal to acknowledge that some things did indeed come easier in the past.

This. ^

I agree with you @SusanandMidge The resentment towards older people (boomers especially) is proper nasty.. And yeah, it is rife on here... I mean, yeah maybe SOME of them had it good and had some advantages in life, but it's not THEIR fault FFS. (And some of them DIDN'T have lots of advantages anyway.)

If someone said to under 40 year olds today 'you can have this 3 bed house for £18K, and a free university degree, and a new car for £3K, and a job in admin that pays £25 per hour,' would these young people say 'nah mate, because it might affect future generations down the line...?'

Would they fucking hell!

They would take any - and every opportunity offered to them. Like many people born before 1960 did. The bitterness and hatred towards older people is pathetic and nasty.

I am in a 3 bed house with DH, JUST him and me, and like fuck will I be giving it up ... NOPE. Blame the government for not providing adequate affordable housing. Not 'older' people

And NO-ONE should be MADE to give up their social housing home - and if they ever make people do it, they MUST provide a smaller property with less bedrooms with the same social housing landlord. And a permanent lifetime tenancy and affordable rent. Don't chuck them out on the streets to find their own private let 1-bed shithole that costs more to rent than the 3 bed house they had, and has no security of tenure.

Problem is, when people are having problems with finances, or trying to get a home, they blame OLDER people ALL THE TIME! Yet it's not their fucking fault.

Yeah the housing market is shit now, mortgage rates up etc, but do younger people think they are the only ones to suffer like this? Like ever?! Get real, get a grip, and educate yourself! Every generation has had its troubles, and trials and tribulations.

DH and I struggled financially for about 20 years with high mortgage rates, and having 2 kids close in age, and not massive wages. We had NO HELP from anyone! No cash handouts, no inheritances, NOTHING. And things like fridges, TVs, washing machines, microwaves, freezers, toasters, irons, kettles etc etc, were more expensive than they are now. And the TVs we had were just basic 24"-26" ones, and not the massive 55"-60" fuckers that many have today!

Plus, I don't see many younger people going without much these days, with expensive phones, macbooks, designer clothes and trainers and shoes, and fillers and botox and tattoos, massive TVs, games consoles, and other expensive tech. So don't come at older people and make out like they have had a blessed life, and yours is a struggle in comparison.

And as for saying 'old people should not be out at lunchtimes and weekends' Fuck me sideways! Who the hell do people think they are that they can dictate to others like this? Such bitter, rude people.

Me and DH are late 50s by the way!

@PurpleButterflyWings - I really object to what you said. Talking about consumer goods like a big television as if that is equivalent to a home, a secure life, or even secure employment. It isn't. It is what you worried about when you were young.

It is incomparable to someone who is young worrying about their future housing needs. Really. It is such a fig leaf. Your post is exactly why young people are angry and resentful. They see this huge disparity and older people bang on about consumer goods.

Honestly, that's why this gets worse. Not having a TV of a certain size is not the same in any way to having a secure home.

To be fair when I was working I used to curse pensioners in the shops at lunch time. Now I no longer work I avoid them at busy times.

Until I was about 16, all my clothes were from jumble sales. Our cars were ancient and had rust holes in the floor, the TVs were free from a relative who worked for a TV rental company and got the ones they were chucking out. Holidays were mainly visiting relatives and never abroad. This is all getting a bit “when I were a lad, breathing were a luxury” but my children would be aghast at the above. DM isn’t alive any more but she started out in slum housing that was demolished when the family was rehoused post-war. There’s no generation that hasn’t had it’s difficulties.

There is (casual) ageism on here. But fwiw the young people I meet in rl are, generally speaking, lovely and thoughtful people who are happy to debate.

From social media it definitely seems that ageism prevails.

As a 55 year old woman things that strike me are that their is almost an assumption that my age group deliberately got together and decided to systematically fuck everything up for generations to come.

That the younger generation will grow old and the generations after will despise them also.