Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

Also - what precisely have you done to change the world? Most people just live their lives within the system they are born into. We vote every four or five years and choose from what’s available. I’d love to hear what you (and anyone else indulging in this oldie hate) have done that’s so different. Somewhere between ‘Fuck all’ and ‘Not a lot would’ be my guess.

What on earth are you going about.

We do lack just straight talking on the issues around NHS etc. Frustratingly so. But they need the votes, either side, if they want to win, we seem worse than some other countries on this, maybe it’s our media playing a role

It's interesting, my parents are from 2 different European countries & whilst they are far from perfect there's a different language around big issues.

Sometimes a German, Aus or Italian will speak on migration or other topic I they just bluntly say what the problem is

eg we need higher security but also workforce

Just say it already. We get stuck in the political weeds forever

So annoying

There’s a couple of politicians who speak clearly, hard to find though

I’m ‘going on about’ people writing off whole generations for doing no more or less than they themselves have done (unless they have somehow changed the world for those coming after them - in which case let’s hear it).

I’ll repeat it for you - Most people just live their lives within the system they are born into. We vote every four or five years and choose from what’s available. If today’s ‘old people’ are being held accountable for that, I want to know what those sitting in judgement have done to give them that right.

No, but I think they should recognise that the generation they despise has fought battles for benefits they take for granted. And benefits they didn’t have themselves.

So how would you like them to show gratitude?

I also think it’s ridiculous to imply that an entire generation votes the same way. We don’t. Of course if young people voted at all it would help.

Who has implied that? Older people are more likely to vote Tory & Brexit which doesn't equal all older people. And yes more young people should vote but the way demographics are soon there won't be enough of them unless they lower voting age.

And before you say “Oh Brexit”, it was largely my parents’ generation that voted leave and they’re dying.

But young people can still be pissed of at that!

And such emotive language, "despise", "revile", how is that helpful?

Its like conversing with a headless chicken!

@ShyMaryEllen I'm middle aged & I was explaining how I think younger people feel. I specifically said wrongly or rightly that's how they feel.

But I disagree that you cant be pissed off about something like Brexit or pension age moving out unless you have done something to change the world. That's a load of crap

This is what I mean. Older people can be very good at piling it on the young. What have you done? I only did what others did! Very defensive isn't it.

No thought about helping the young. Look at the selfishness of that compared to say the war generation who voted on en masse to have great social provision and public spending. There is very big difference here. Our society does not think about its future as a whole, and our older generations are more insular in their thinking than their own parents were.

Definition of ageism, from Equality and Human Rights:

You’d be pretty churlish to revile those who fought world wars for your freedom

You do realise that there's not many of them left now right? Considering someone old enough to have fought in ww2 would be at least in their mid 90s now.

But, I'd have no issue with giving those who did fight anything they wanted. In truth, they deserve(d) far better treated than they recieve(d) from their children's generation, especially in regards to elderly care, which of course, was a boomer / Xer decision not to fund properly.

Weird how it's becoming a hot topic now though isn't it? I'm sure it's just a coincidence that this is because boomers are now being impacted by it and no doubt the younger generations will be expected to fund it properly this time.

Where have I said I have no thought for helping the young? I work with them all day!

It’s not piling it on to ask what those accusing others of doing nothing have done differently, is it? It’s judging by the same criteria. (I’m guessing you’ve done nothing for the generations coming after you then?)

You do realise that there's not many of them left now right?

Yes although you need to follow the posts to see the context.

It was about the older generation not reviling their elders as apparently people today do.

So back when they were around. Post war

In truth, they deserve(d) far better treated than they recieve(d) from their children's generation, especially in regards to elderly care, which of course, was a boomer / Xer decision not to fund properly.

In what way were they treated badly? There’s never been a decision not to fund care for the elderly properly. My parents were that generation (born 1916 and 1918). When they needed care and support in old age I provided it, all my friends have done the same. When our time comes we’ll be paying £1000+ a week for it.

Look at the selfishness of that compared to say the war generation who voted on en masse to have great social provision and public spending.

Once in 1945. Then they started voting Tory again. Clearly you’ve forgotten the 1997 landslide when more than one generation voted en masse to have great social provision and public spending.

I always thing of the Ford Dagenham women when I think of women in the past who fought for women's rights and they are mostly forgotten about .

Me too @Guiltyfeethavegotnorhythm0. And the late, great Barbara Castle.

Maybe because they worked and paid for it

That was me.
Bought 4 bed.
Couldn't have kids.
Mortgage is now paid.
Should i pay more council tax? I already pay more council tax because the band is higher than say a one bed flat. Perhaps they'd also like my savings

Just reading up on that lady now👍

The big problem is that the Boomer generation paid so little comparatively into the system but are now expecting so much out of it in terms of very long retirements and gold plated pensions and NHS care etc.

And it's the younger generations who are having to pay for it all whilst never being able to expect to have such good pensions or as long a retirement. And the NHS is on its knees looking after people who didn't look after themselves, and won't be there for us by the time we get to that age. It's no wonder people are angry with that generation.

A bit of history:

Ageism, also spelled agism, is discrimination against individuals or groups on the basis of their age. The term was coined in 1969 by Robert Neil Butler to describe discrimination against seniors, and patterned on sexism and racism. Butler defined "ageism" as a combination of three connected elements. Originally it was identified chiefly towards older people, old age, and the aging process; discriminatory practices against older people; and institutional practices and policies that perpetuate stereotypes about elderly people.

Ageism - Wikipedia

The big problem is that the Boomer generation paid so little comparatively into the system but are now expecting so much out of it in terms of very long retirements and gold plated pensions and NHS care etc.

You might wish to check your facts. When I started work basic rate income tax was 33% and NI was 9% - a total of 42%. The two combined now are 32%. Gold plated pensions have been a thing of the past for at least 20 years and too right we expect NHS care - just like everyone else.

I think there are a lot of people on here falling for the scam which is to blame other ordinary people rather than those in power for the bloody awful state this country is in.

Wake up and scrutinise your candidates in the next election rather than flinging insults and unsubstantiated claims at the old or young.

As for attaching Boomer of Gen X or any other epithet to what you might deem a sensible argument - just don't. I'm not a boomer but technically my husband is. Are we any different? No!

Brexit was a vote of education level not age.

Older people had less access to higher education.

AFWIW, I’m 59. Voted remain, vote Labour as do all my friends and family.

What you are talking about is a clutch of people in the SE or in non university towns.

It might be difficult for some young people not to resent the generation whose voting has taken away so many opportunities for them such as living/studying abroad (obviously not everyone but a large share:

and yet the resentment is towards ALL 'old' people, including those of us who are equally angry with those who voted to leave and continue to vote bloody Conservative. Where is the vitriol towards those in your own generation who didn't vote at all?

This is the age of remain v leave voters

73% 18 - 24 voted remain, 60% 65+ votes leave

Tapers between the two

Regardless of people who they know voting same way, it’s pretty stark