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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the penny hasn't dropped yet, for many people, that the trade in new petrol and diesel cars is really ending in 6 years

823 replies

JadeClade · 25/07/2023 21:17

I think the price of second hand cars will go through the roof, at first, when new cars are no longer available, and people buying new homes now really do need to be factoring in where they are going to charge an electric car, and all sorts of preparations and plans are simply not being made

YANBU - we need to be planning and preparing, as individuals and society.
YABU- we don't need to think about it.

OP posts:
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18
cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:33

@PuzzledObserver maybe so - but I couldn’t afford even a 47th hand Tesla, they are too heavy for t( road, their production and disposal are massively polluting and you still haven’t solved the fact there is not now and neither compulsory there ever be a way for all the people on my street to charge their cars. Plus I can’t even always park on my street anyway. EVs are not the answer, they can never be the answer, and governments will realise it sooner or later.

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:34

Autocorrect has garbled that. should say -
Neither could there ever be.

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:35

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 20:21

A new EV Kona is 34-43k

Second hand is 19k but thats for a car only a couple of years old, so virtually new in my eyes

So still twice the price I’m looking for and already second hand.

LameBorzoi · 26/07/2023 21:38

cardibach · 26/07/2023 18:36

Except the car I have only costs £19k new so gets to me second hand. And electric vehicles don’t last like petrol ones. The batteries go and are very expensive to replace.

No, the batteries don't "go". That was true of the early leafs, but they will now outlast the chassis.

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:39

cardibach · 26/07/2023 18:29

@Lunar270
just seen this too Modern EV's can charge 300 miles in 20 minutes. That's like filling up with petrol
no it isn’t. Half an hour? It’s less than 5 mins to fill with petrol. I don’t mind wait8 f for. Person 8n front of me at busy times. I don’t have half an hour myself most of the time, least still to wait half an hour for someone else before I can even start.

Exactly this. And coupled with fact that EVs are clearly fucking dangerous, the plan to ban all petrol and diesel cars needs chucking in the bin!

Also, as for the urban dwellers having no room for a charging point. Why do they need a car anyway? They're in the towns/cities. They don't NEED a car. Wink

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:41

I notice everyone who is an expert is pulling me up on what they consider to be out of date info re battery life but none of them are addressing how I’m supposed to charge the battery when I live in a terraced house with no drive, few lampposts, no charging infrastructure and I don’t even always manage to park on my street never mind near my house. There are massive areas of all our towns and cities where this applies. There isn’t a solution to it. Therefore EVs are not, can not, be the answer.

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:42

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:39

Exactly this. And coupled with fact that EVs are clearly fucking dangerous, the plan to ban all petrol and diesel cars needs chucking in the bin!

Also, as for the urban dwellers having no room for a charging point. Why do they need a car anyway? They're in the towns/cities. They don't NEED a car. Wink

I can’t work out what the second part of your post is intended to do. Is it a joke?

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:45

Here's a bit of news that may shock you @bellac11 MANY PEOPLE cannot afford £19,000 for a car either. Particularly one they never wanted in the bloody first place!

@cardibach

......but @PuzzledObserver I couldn’t afford even a 47th hand Tesla, and they are too heavy, and their production and disposal are massively polluting ... And you still haven’t solved the fact that there is not now (and neither could their ever be) a way for all the people on my street to charge their cars.

Plus I can’t even always park on my street anyway. EVs are not the answer, they can never be the answer, and governments will realise it sooner or later.

All of this. And hopefully the governments will realise SOONER rather than later.

Alexandra2001 · 26/07/2023 21:45

@PuzzledObserver so what about long range drives, say to S of France etc? where time is of the essence, say to make a ferry or accommodation?

Cold weather range?

Battery life is 10 to 20 years and £5k to 20k to replace?

Are these batteries recyclable? if not, where do they go?
Should my Skoda Diesel engine die, it'll be recycled and will cost far less than 5k to replace, expected life of the 1.6 tdi is 250 to 300k, so on average mileage 20 to 25 years, some taxi Octavia's are on 400k..... How long does the motor last? how much to replace?

How do people without access to work chargers or off street parking manage?

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:46

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:42

I can’t work out what the second part of your post is intended to do. Is it a joke?

Yeah sorry, someone said it upthread, and I was just taking the piss. Blush

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 21:47

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:45

Here's a bit of news that may shock you @bellac11 MANY PEOPLE cannot afford £19,000 for a car either. Particularly one they never wanted in the bloody first place!

@cardibach

......but @PuzzledObserver I couldn’t afford even a 47th hand Tesla, and they are too heavy, and their production and disposal are massively polluting ... And you still haven’t solved the fact that there is not now (and neither could their ever be) a way for all the people on my street to charge their cars.

Plus I can’t even always park on my street anyway. EVs are not the answer, they can never be the answer, and governments will realise it sooner or later.

All of this. And hopefully the governments will realise SOONER rather than later.

Did you mean to aim your comment at me?

I cannot afford a 19k car and would not assume many people can (I dont know anyone who can)

So no, not shocked

PuzzledObserver · 26/07/2023 21:48

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:33

@PuzzledObserver maybe so - but I couldn’t afford even a 47th hand Tesla, they are too heavy for t( road, their production and disposal are massively polluting and you still haven’t solved the fact there is not now and neither compulsory there ever be a way for all the people on my street to charge their cars. Plus I can’t even always park on my street anyway. EVs are not the answer, they can never be the answer, and governments will realise it sooner or later.

I was addressing one specific issue you raised about battery life. Your concerns about it are misplaced.

I respond to one specific issue - you raise 6 more. They can all be answered, but I get the sense you are not open to hearing the answers.

Ghastisflabbered · 26/07/2023 21:48

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 20:21

A new EV Kona is 34-43k

Second hand is 19k but thats for a car only a couple of years old, so virtually new in my eyes

There’s a 2023 registered Kona on Autotrader right now for £19k?

If the depreciation is that heavy on them then no one needs to worry about affording a second hand EV.

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:54

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 21:46

Yeah sorry, someone said it upthread, and I was just taking the piss. Blush

I was just confused that it seemed to be in direct opposition to the first part! In my defence I am very, very tired and should get off my arse and go to bed…

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 21:54

Ghastisflabbered · 26/07/2023 21:48

There’s a 2023 registered Kona on Autotrader right now for £19k?

If the depreciation is that heavy on them then no one needs to worry about affording a second hand EV.

Well thats interesting because if you look for new ones, they are 34-43k

But you're righ tthere are some registered this year for 19k

Is there a reason why there is such a drop?

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:55

PuzzledObserver · 26/07/2023 21:48

I was addressing one specific issue you raised about battery life. Your concerns about it are misplaced.

I respond to one specific issue - you raise 6 more. They can all be answered, but I get the sense you are not open to hearing the answers.

I used to be open to them. Probably still am. But in discussion after discussion people say it’s easy to solve then say something daft about lamppost chargers.
if you have the solution, I’m all ears.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 26/07/2023 21:59

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 19:25

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306158554007?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&aggregatedTrim=&body-type=&colour=&fuel-type=Electric&include-delivery-option=on&make=Hyundai&model=Kona&postcode=CT10%203HX&transmission=&year-to=2023&fromsra

Like this car?

Its not new but nearly new

I dont understand the charging, in the description it says 39kwh but equally it says 10.5kw charger

Then looking at the extra information about charging it mentions a home charger (fast) of 7.4kw and then public charging of 50kw rapid

What does all that mean?

its very slow to fill up however. Personally I wouldnt want an SUV but much cheaper than some that are around. Plus range isnt great

Really what the description for the Konami means is that this car has a 39.5 kW angina and when full cam do up to 189 miles before it is totally empty. In real life this probably means about 150 miles.
On a 7.5 kW charger it will take around 6 hrs to charge from completely empty to completely full (those chargers are typical home chargers and if you charge on the cheap overnight tarif it really does not make a difference if you take 1 hrs or 6 hrs to fully charge the car unless you fancy getting up at 2am to unplug the car). The car can charge on fast chargers of up to 50kw (so it would take about 45 min to charge from completely empty to full).
In reality a lot of that is academic because it really is not a great idea to let your car run completely out of charge and once you get your head round to charge as you go along - when not near a reliable overnight charger it is a non issue - while you stop and have a toilet break / quick coffee during a longer trip you top up.
And if you frequently have to drive a really long distance then maybe this particular car is not the one for you.
I am currently on holidays in an extremely remote location with my 50kw ev (nearest charging point is 20 miles away) and yes it is absolutely no problem because when I go anywhere near a charger I just top up even if I have my battery half full or more.
Yes it is much more expensive to charge on public network than it is to charge on my ev nighttime tariff but it is no more expensive than it was to run my previous frugal diesel car. So happy enough to do on holidays.
Agree that the issue of chargers for homes that currently can't have chargers fitted needs to be addressed as a matter or urgency.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 26/07/2023 22:00

Sorry for the typos

Ylvamoon · 26/07/2023 22:01

bellac11 · 26/07/2023 21:54

Well thats interesting because if you look for new ones, they are 34-43k

But you're righ tthere are some registered this year for 19k

Is there a reason why there is such a drop?

Probably issues with the battery. They are just like any other battery, the morre you charge, the shorter they last.
So a car with a certain mileage has probably a shorter battery range.

I'm obviously just guessing, as this is the case with all rechargeable batteries.

(And I have had them since I was a teen, remember the Walkman? Mine needed 2xAA ...)

Spendonsend · 26/07/2023 22:08

The area i work in is taking part in a trial of onstreet fast charging. So quite a few charging posts have cropped up on residential streets and parking bays. Each post looks to have 4 charging points on it. The cars park up and can charge to 80% in twenty mins. Its to try and get some info about how it works in practice and how it can be rolled out. They wont be right outside every home and I assume the data would show some sort of booking system would be needed and peak times etc and how long people stay. But i could easily see driving to one, plugging in, walking home for a cuppa, then picking it up is possible.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 26/07/2023 22:12

The kona with the small battery is around 25k brand new so that advertised price for a one year old (ex demo?) sounds about right - the difference between ice amd ev is not as big anymore.
I would doubt that there is anything wrong with it - hyundai have fairly good warranties.
I test drove a kona, it drives well and the description suv is a wee bit aspirational. It is about the size of a renault captur so siply a small car with a bit of a higher driving position.

PuzzledObserver · 26/07/2023 22:15

@Alexandra2001

so what about long range drives, say to S of France etc? where time is of the essence, say to make a ferry or accommodation?

At the moment, you would need a Tesla for that. The Supercharger network can work at up to 350kW. By the time you’ve been for a wee and grabbed a coffee, the thing is charged. Other cars/platforms are starting to come along with similar capabilities.

Cold weather range?

In my experience, lose around 20% of good weather range.

Battery life is 10 to 20 years and £5k to 20k to replace?

Evidence is that after the first year, battery degradation might only be around 0.5-1% per year. You don’t necessarily need to replace the whole battery - individual modules can be replaced. Expect that to become much more widely available, and cheaper. And expect new batteries to become cheaper too, if a replacement is needed.

Are these batteries recyclable? if not, where do they go?

Yes, they are. Some get a second life as home storage batteries. The metals can be recovered and reused - I saw up to 97% recyclable. The industry to do that isn’t there yet, because the demand hasn’t been there. But as the demand comes, so will the industry.

Should my Skoda Diesel engine die, it'll be recycled and will cost far less than 5k to replace, expected life of the 1.6 tdi is 250 to 300k, so on average mileage 20 to 25 years, some taxi Octavia's are on 400k..... How long does the motor last? how much to replace?.

I can’t answer that. The oldest EV’s are 12 years old. I don’t recall hearing about motors being replaced. I do know that motors are far simpler than engines, I would think that translates into lower probability of failure.

How do people without access to work chargers or off street parking manage?

A combination of things:-

Chargers in car parks.
High power chargers in electric forecourts (like a petrol station for EV’s)
On-street chargers
Sharing someone else’s home charger (there are apps to facilitate this)

My previous car was a diesel Golf. Loved it. In the time I had it, it had an EGR valve failure and a water pump failure, necessitating a cam belt replacement as well (which had already been done on schedule at 60K miles). Expensive things, which EV’s don’t have. When it was 9 years old, at over 80K miles, an injector went. Cost over £500 to fix. It still didn’t run right - turned out two more injectors were failing. Rather than shell out another £1K, I traded it in for my EV. No regrets.

julylover · 26/07/2023 22:16

So pleased about this. The extreme temperatures in Europe this summer are a wake-up call and anyone who drives as a lifestyle choice (rather than from necessity) is contributing to global warming and denying my DC a future.

julylover · 26/07/2023 22:17

Good post @PuzzledObserver

PuzzledObserver · 26/07/2023 22:17

cardibach · 26/07/2023 21:55

I used to be open to them. Probably still am. But in discussion after discussion people say it’s easy to solve then say something daft about lamppost chargers.
if you have the solution, I’m all ears.

OK, to clarify - the problem you most want to hear a solution to is charging for people who can’t charge at home?