to think the penny hasn't dropped yet, for many people, that the trade in new petrol and diesel cars is really ending in 6 years

[JadeClade]

I think the price of second hand cars will go through the roof, at first, when new cars are no longer available, and people buying new homes now really do need to be factoring in where they are going to charge an electric car, and all sorts of preparations and plans are simply not being made

YANBU - we need to be planning and preparing, as individuals and society.
YABU- we don't need to think about it.

The penny can drop as hard as it fucking likes, I don't buy cars, I lease hire from Motability and I get what meets my needs, this go round that was one of two options... and one of those options was no longer being made...

Next time round, who the fuck knows - however I don't have off street parking, so quite how I will charge an electric car in a town that currently has six public charge points (three of which are out of use at any point)... I dunno.

Blimey some people are victims of the Mail Online.

2030 is when raw petrol and diesel vehicles will stop production. In the past 3 years 90% of manufacturers have adopted mild hybrid technology. These sort of vehicles will still be sold. The government get too much in tax for unleaded to give it up. In fact if they did give up petrol there would be a humongous hole in the economy that would never recover (£25 billion)

“Depends where you live doesn’t it? If you live in a city where public transport links are good and services are easily accessible then that’s fine and dandy but for those of us living in more rural areas living without a car means we cannot get to work.”
I live in a city, I can get to work quite easily on a bus, but the bus takes longer and costs more for a return journey than a days parking in the city centre.
Of course I’m paying road tax, insurance, petrol and maintenance on a car but for time it saves me on my daily commute, I’m out of the house 50 hours a week including commute to my full time job as a single parent, plus giving me the freedom to travel to my mum, sister, boyfriend, aunty who all live in smaller towns which would take me hours and money to get to by bus on my very limited time off it’s more than worth it to me, that’s without being able to drive to the seaside every once in a while, visit other friends who live rurally.
My car is my freedom and makes me doing my job full time possible.
Its not only country dwellers who need cars.

That’s when they’ll start charging hefty tax on green electricity!

Once “dirty” energy has gone and there’s no choice, they’ll be able to whack whatever levy they want on it to make up the shortfall! It won’t be cheaper, it’s going to go through the roof.

Unfortunately none of them are any good for towing a caravan, even if they do tow the weight, the mileage drops so low because of the extra weight you wouldn't get to many places and it is bad enough filling up with diesel while towing, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to faff about with a charging point if you could find one with a caravan on the back. We are also getting a motorhome or campervan sometime for touring but that will be diesel.

Can somebody explain to me how how key workers such as care workers, TAs etc on minimum wages who can’t afford to live near where they work are supposed to afford Teslas or anything more than 3 or 4 K for a car?

Also how are practicalities on journeys going to work?The thousands of drivers at service stations fighting and waiting for a few charging spaces needing to then sit and wait 20 minutes or more is going to take a hell of a lot longer to refuel than the 5 minutes it takes to fill a tank.Where are the tailbacks going to go?

Also what is going to happen to the people living near the environmental impact of living where the mining areas of the substances needed to make batteries takes place?

I support change but it needs to be for the masses already struggling with the cost of living, time and stress of 2 full time jobs and childcare per household along with crap infrastructure, transport and soaring rent/ mortgages. Just focusing on the rich is ludicrous. It also needs to deal with the environmental impact that electric cars bring.

I currently have a caravan and have the same thoughts. I think possibly caravanning may become a thing of the past due to this.

Not not going to happen by 2030.

Possibly 2130.

I live in a terrace house with no driveway (no chance of a driveway as its on a corner with double yellows outside) in a semi remote village with currently no charging points or plans for any. Bus service has been cut. Not sure how this will work really for me.

honestly, i dont want to go electric. I Dont believe its the way forward as it is. I dont think its as environmentally friendly as they are pushing us to believe 🤷🏻‍♀️

I would love to go electric, but it's the infrastructure that I'm not happy with at the moment. I could have a point at home, but with the area I cover (4 counties) I can easily do 200 miles in a day, and I'm not confident on the range / availability of charging at my destination yet. Once that gets a bit more reliable I would switch.

My employer is just starting to put points in, but they won't be free - fine for a quick top up but there just aren't enough of them.

The people who have EVs have no trouble with charge and infrastructure - I know people who have toured the uk, met their ferry after a 400 mile trip , use it routinely for work

But I do agree that as a solution to the crisis cheap reliable available public transport would be my focus

So it could be available to all not just wealthy people with driveways
So it would have less environmental impact - the whole life impact of EVs it is borderline if they really are better - predicated on long car lifetimes
And it would improve the nations health if we walked to a bus stop instead of the car

Well this thread is a pretty comprehensive set of reasons why switching en masse to electric cars any time soon is completely impractical, and would involve overcoming too many obstacles. I guess that's that idea demolished then.

Fortunately the alternative only imvolves watching the world burn and become uninhabitable for our children. So that's much easier.

I love the faith of those who are arguing it can’t possibly happen in 6 years time because the infrastructure won’t be in place and people need access to cheap cars unless public transport improves - and therefore the government will look at this ideological plan and scrap it for practical reasons. Have you lot not noticed how Brexit has effected our economy and they’ve done it anyway?!

I don’t think there will be a crisis point in 2030 if they do this- as most people don’t buy a car yearly, so no crisis point to put pressure on government to change the plan. It might get pushed back, but wouldn’t count on it.

It will be mainly poorer people and disabled that will be affected so I guess the government won't care anyway

I have a friend who caravans with a Tesla 3. It's a small teardrop van, but they are very happy with doing that with their kids. Chargers can be a bit of a pain with the van attached, but the car's software helps a lot with the planning.

Can somebody explain to me how how key workers such as care workers, TAs etc on minimum wages who can’t afford to live near where they work are supposed to afford Teslas or anything more than 3 or 4 K for a car?

I think the suggestion was you work local and never change jobs.
Like workplace bullying and professional TAs aren't a thing. Clearly we are all just mummies who trot up the road, not highly trained individuals selected for our particular.skills and fit to the school. And imagine thinking someone who is professional has to move house every time they want to move school or role.

A result of that would be there would be even more pressure than there already is to live in certain areas. Madness.

No op, I won't leave my rural home to virtue signal a not that environmentally sound alternative to petrol.

Yeah, that's not a caravan. It's a tiny trailer with some cushions inside.

Totally agree. I would love a society that doesn't force you to use cars. So much better for so many reasons.

The Daily Mail false nonsense that people regurgitate about EVs drives me nuts, though. Battery fires! Cold weather! Charging for hours! Cobalt! Range! Battery failure / lifespan!

How will that work?

Public transport still has to be relatively cost-effective - not vast profits but not enormous losses. And people who live rurally or semi-rurally need cars.

And people are now used to the convenience. If you're ferrying kids about and need to get somewhere for a specific time then public transport doesn't work.

It's no good saying it won't be convenient and it won't work

Either we have a solution that works or you have no solution because you can't carry on as we are and expect no change

Either you control the change -

Or the (climate ) change controls you - you won't need a car if your home is under water
You won't have a car if all your money goes on food

Apparently 80% of new cars in Norway are already electric and they appear to be going to hit their target early - maybe even this year. Its cold there too.

This is my EV, cost about 6k GBP. Its cute, great for parking, sort of fun to drive and dodging around town, but that's about it. I wouldnt want to have a crash in it, range is 170km, takes about 8 hours to charge, its slow, when the heater is on the battery level drops rapidly.

My other car is an XC90 T6

The time to reverse car use growth was around 20-25 years ago when it was blindingly obvious what was about to happen, as it had already started, i.e. growth out out of town shopping, businesses leaving the town centres, centralisation of jobs into a few main cities, closure of local amenities (libraries, schools, shops, swimming pools, colleges etc), scaling down further of public transport. What we were witnessing in the 80s and 90s should have been a wake up call that we were heading for dominance of cars. But, no, the politicians were too blinded to see what had already happened and how it would continue, and just sat back and didn't act. In fact they continued to oversee further reductions in public transport, more closures of local amenities such as libraries and swimming pools, continued to grant planning permission for ever more and ever bigger out of town shopping, etc. Now we've gone so far down the dominance of cars, it's going to be more expensive and costly to reverse. Our village was completely ruined in the noughties - our bus service was taken away, our library was closed, pubs and shops shut - we've literally only got a primary school and a church now and the place is dead outside Sunday morning and school drop off/pick up times. In the 80s and 90s it was vibrant with a full road of various shops, butchers, post office, 3 pubs, GP surgery, chemists, library, main road had a bus service to nearby towns - it's a travesty that it's all gone and that now everyone has to drive to nearby towns for even the simplest of things.

The UK has much more dense housing - Norway is mostly very spread out. Relative population sizes are also a lot smaller in Norway. You can't really compare. Norway is also a very rich country on the back of oil and gas production - ironic really that they've benefitted massively from all the emissions and climate change that has arisen from their natural resources!

And a lot of us disabled can't drive, instead using bicycles, tricycles, and public transport. I fucking hate it when lazy able-bodied car owners use me to avoid even contemplating a carless life.

My disabled life is greatly improved when I can cycle without dying.