Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the penny hasn't dropped yet, for many people, that the trade in new petrol and diesel cars is really ending in 6 years

823 replies

JadeClade · 25/07/2023 21:17

I think the price of second hand cars will go through the roof, at first, when new cars are no longer available, and people buying new homes now really do need to be factoring in where they are going to charge an electric car, and all sorts of preparations and plans are simply not being made

YANBU - we need to be planning and preparing, as individuals and society.
YABU- we don't need to think about it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Cucucucu · 26/07/2023 14:29

LimeCheesecake · 26/07/2023 13:42

Actually as posting that - realised there’s another option - when I think “well I park at Sainsburys for 20-30 minutes weekly anyway, I’d just a different bay.” Perhaps you lot are all like Supermarket sweep when you hit the supermarket and scoff at the idea of being parked up for 20 minutes to do a family shop….

And pay more than it would cost a petrol or diesel to charge your car ! Makes perfect sense

Cucucucu · 26/07/2023 14:30

User19633654 · 26/07/2023 12:29

So why do some ferry companies not allow them on, they allow normal cars, I do worry about mine catching fire but unlikely on the drive I suppose, Electric bikes are a fire risk, we have those as well

because putting out fires from lithium batteries is almost impossible which means it’s extremely hard to contain

Beachwalker66 · 26/07/2023 14:30

If the cost of second hand petrol/diesel cars continues to increase, and electric vehicles don’t come down in price, then I guess there will come a point where many people will be priced out of car ownership altogether.

Maybe leasing EVs will be the only option for many?

Lunar270 · 26/07/2023 14:42

User19633654 · 26/07/2023 12:29

So why do some ferry companies not allow them on, they allow normal cars, I do worry about mine catching fire but unlikely on the drive I suppose, Electric bikes are a fire risk, we have those as well

Because they're paranoid like lots of other people?

https://ctif.org/news/norwegian-shipping-company-bans-electric-cars-board-classic-ferry-route

Havila Kystruten, only allow 5 cars on their ferries normally. I guess they've had an issue but last time I checked none of the UK ferries had any such restrictions. Even other Norwegian ferry companies (who carry many more vehicles) are still allowing EV's and hybrids onboard.

It's definitely true that battery fires are harder to deal with. But if we're talking about issues at sea, what do you think of all the tankers that have spilled oil and caused untold environment disasters all over the world? Does that bother you as a side effect of driving ICE vehicles? Oil rigs often spill oil off our coasts yet these are never really reported. But one ferry fire from an EV and it's major news.

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

https://ctif.org/news/norwegian-shipping-company-bans-electric-cars-board-classic-ferry-route

brunettemic · 26/07/2023 15:08

It won’t happen. I work in a business that does a lot of electrical maintenance and trust me, our grid cannot handle the additional load that would be put on it. The plan is only for new cars to electric, the secondhand car market with petrol/diesel cars will carry on and quite possibly boom - it’s basic economics, if the demand doesn’t change much but the supply does (because there’s no new ones) the price will go up.

Moonmelodies · 26/07/2023 15:08

You need the crude oil to make EV cars too.

hoophoophooray · 26/07/2023 15:18

For those of you saying that electricity supply issues are an extreme outlier and not really a huge issue, this is what we are dealing with

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/supply-chain/electricity-shortage-leads-to-ban-on-west-london-developments-28-07-2022/

The DNO's are working hard, but projects to upgrade infrastructure take years not months. The one I am currently battling on needs a 22km new cable from the sub back to the National Grid connection, which will cost millions and take 5 years. No local projects are being allocated more than 250kVa which is about enough for 25 houses, I'm told. They want to build 6000 locally.

Electricity shortage leads to ban on West London developments

Developers in West London have been told they face a potential decade-long moratorium on any new hom...

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/supply-chain/electricity-shortage-leads-to-ban-on-west-london-developments-28-07-2022/

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 15:23

brunettemic · 26/07/2023 15:08

It won’t happen. I work in a business that does a lot of electrical maintenance and trust me, our grid cannot handle the additional load that would be put on it. The plan is only for new cars to electric, the secondhand car market with petrol/diesel cars will carry on and quite possibly boom - it’s basic economics, if the demand doesn’t change much but the supply does (because there’s no new ones) the price will go up.

Exactly this. Can't believe the posters going batshit desperately trying to convince us electric vehicles are better are not accepting this. They're in a world of their own...

Createausername1970 · 26/07/2023 15:26

JadeClade · 25/07/2023 21:37

This is exactly what I mean by people need to be making plans now. It is 6 years away, and a lot of people's lives will need adjusting, and they need to be planning now.

I came from a rural area, but moved to a town so I could get to work without needing a car.

So what are you saying - everyone moves to a town?

Badbadbunny · 26/07/2023 15:29

Createausername1970 · 26/07/2023 15:26

So what are you saying - everyone moves to a town?

Crazy isn't it! Just where are all these people going to live if they move to a handful of cities to be closer to the jobs so they don't need cars. I must have missed the bit about us having millions of empty homes in city centres just waiting for people to move into them!

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 15:52

@Badbadbunny @Createausername1970 That comment by the OP is one of MANY batshit comments made on here by a certain few posters. Can't believe some of the things some people are coming out with. Expecting people to fork out £30,000 or more for an electric vehicle, like they just have that much stashed away in the fucking wardrobe! Hmm And up sticks to a town MILES away if they can't afford an electric vehicle.

Daft!

SlippySarah · 26/07/2023 16:03

I think it's a great idea. Most of the people who are against it are just scared of change or can't envisage themselves doing something different. The destruction of the environment and the harm caused by pollution are serious problems and we all need to change and learn to live with a bit of inconvenience.

hoophoophooray · 26/07/2023 16:07

SlippySarah · 26/07/2023 16:03

I think it's a great idea. Most of the people who are against it are just scared of change or can't envisage themselves doing something different. The destruction of the environment and the harm caused by pollution are serious problems and we all need to change and learn to live with a bit of inconvenience.

Not scared of change - just think the timescales are unrealistic. You don't just chuck infrastructure up and assume it will be OK - the planning, preparation, design, tender processes just take time. And then the construction. It is time, effort and LOTS AND LOTS of money.

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 16:20

@SlippySarah · Today 16:03

I think it's a great idea. Most of the people who are against it are just scared of change or can't envisage themselves doing something different. The destruction of the environment and the harm caused by pollution are serious problems and we all need to change and learn to live with a bit of inconvenience.

And you don't think electric vehicles do the SLIGHTEST bit of harm to the environment?!

Fuck me sideways, the naivety and ignorance on here (from some posters) is breathtaking! Shock

And are you going to give me £30,000 for a new electric car Sarah? Are you going to come and install a charging point at the top of my driveway?

Thought not. Such a ludicrous, ill-thought out post! Hmm

Ghastisflabbered · 26/07/2023 17:03

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 15:52

@Badbadbunny @Createausername1970 That comment by the OP is one of MANY batshit comments made on here by a certain few posters. Can't believe some of the things some people are coming out with. Expecting people to fork out £30,000 or more for an electric vehicle, like they just have that much stashed away in the fucking wardrobe! Hmm And up sticks to a town MILES away if they can't afford an electric vehicle.

Daft!

To be fair, an awful lot of the batshit comments have come from you. You seem awfully enraged about something you claim will never happen and won’t affect you.

And no one’s expecting anyone to “fork out £30,000 for an electric vehicle” unless they want to - the people who pay £30k for a vehicle now will continue to do so it will just be electric - and then people who can’t afford that will buy that £30k car second, third, fourth and fifth hand as it gets within their personal budget for a vehicle - exactly as happens now.

Spendonsend · 26/07/2023 17:04

And yet the internal combustion engine market has continued to exist despite me not having a petrol pump on my drive and not ever being a position to own a brand new car. Theres an awful lot of ice cars that cost well over 30k being sold so someone has lots of money to spend on new cars. Cant see much difference between a new tesla v a new audi a4 in terms of price.

As i say, i dont really know if they are the way forward or if the infrastructure can manage or if the government and EU will stick to their guns on this, but I dont think whether or not I can afford one in 2030 will change things. Ill just keep buying second hand in my price range.

Saltovinegar · 26/07/2023 17:54

manontroppo · 26/07/2023 07:49

And yet I bet your street of terrace housing had significant amounts of space given over to accommodating cars. Make some of that space support secure bike storage and suddenly it’s a different picture.

Not the case I'm afraid, there would be nowhere to put a bike shed and there's not a lot of parking. The area is currently being plagued by people breaking into cars so I would not be leaving an expensive ebike in a random bike shed.

I wish people would just stop making assumptions about other posters situations.

PuzzledObserver · 26/07/2023 18:01

I don’t think any advocates of EV’s are claiming they cause no damage to the environment at all. At least, the sensible ones are not. The claim is that they cause substantially —less— damage to the environment than ICE cars.

Let’s look at it under 3 headings: manufacturing, CO2 emissions in use and particulate emissions in use.

Manufacturing is the one on which my personal knowledge is the weakest. In terms of CO2 to manufacture, EV’s do produce more because they’re generally heavier - but the difference is recouped (depending on which country we’re talking about) within a number of months or years, and that can be improved as industry is decarbonised. In terms of other environmental damage to manufacture - there are alternatives to lithium in development, the rare metals like cobalt are being systematically removed from batterie - and by the way, refining petrol is a major user of cobalt.

In terms of CO2 produced in use, its a case of Ye canna change the laws of physics, writ large. To start with, EV’s are roughly 3 times more efficient at turning stored energy into motion. So even if 100% of the electricity used to charge them came from fossil fuels, they would be responsible for 1/3 as much CO2 per mile travelled as ICE cars. Then there’s the fact that the grid is now on average around 50% carbon-free, so we’re down to 1/6 of the CO2 emitted, and the grid is reducing carbon intensity all the time.

Then there are particulates in use. Braking - EV’s use regenerative braking, slowing the car down by putting energy back into the battery rather than relying on friction brakes. So the emission of particulates from braking is much lower. I had mine serviced at 26,000 miles, and was told the brake pads were 10% worn - 250,000 mile brake discs, anyone? The discs will warp before the pads wear out. Tyres - there has been some false information doing the rounds that EV tyres produce massively more tiny rubber particles than ICE cars do. But if those claims were remotely near the truth, EV drivers would need a new set of tyres every 1-4,000 miles. I just replaced my fronts after 27,000 miles (not massively different from many ICE cars) and the rear tyres have at least as much in them again.

Then there are particulates from the tail pipe - which are, obviously, zero for EV’s. Whereas for ICE vehicles - however clean and modern - they are still a significant health hazard. There is no getting round that. More people die in the UK from air pollution from vehicles than in road traffic accidents.

There is no getting round the fact we need to decarbonise transport (and a lot of other things). Hydrogen will have a place, but it will be for heavy haulage - at least with the technology we can see at the moment. It is also inherently much less efficient to use renewable electricity to hydrolyse water for hydrogen and put the hydrogen in a car, than it is to use the renewable electricity to charge an EV. Again of the top of my head, I think it’s about a factor of 3.

So, to be clear: are EV’s without problems? No, of course not. They are not environmentally innocent, but their crimes are much smaller than those of ICE cars. There is improvement needed in range, price, charging speed and charging infrastructure, before they can replace ICE cars for every user and situation. And that needs massive investment, and I think Government needs a kick up the bloody arse to get on with it.

Until that happens, those who can make EV’s work will increasingly do so. Those who can’t will have to wait. I’m sure there will also be those who refuse - well, it’s a free country.

I don’t know whether the 2030 target will be kept - I hope it is. I do believe that, in time, most people will be happy they made the switch.

Floordilemma · 26/07/2023 18:03

I'm currently driving an EV while my car is being repaired. Its a dream to drive, I'm really enjoying it. And I like that there's no emissions at the point I'm driving - cleaner streets.

But, its clear the infrastructure needs major improvements. I don't have an EV, so not charge point at home - which would solve my current issue.

The public charge points are simple enough when you know how. But I seem to be fucking it up.

Not many points in the area. Went to tesco to do shopping at the same time, but of a drama with a guy outside because he wanted the space too - was empty when I got there as he was parked elsewhere in one of the slower charging points. Only one fast charge point available. I managed to not put the charger on properly so it didn't charge - my own fault, but someone standing over me complaining didn't help.

Dropped my shopping home, grab a book and go to the town centre chargers. They don't take contactless card, only some other type of card - and I'd have to pay for the car park on top. Don't even want to be there.

Take a risk of one on the way as I'm already quite late by this point. Drive in, charging cable doesn't reach. Reverse out and reverse in to the space next to me - doesn't take contactless. Move to the original space, but reverse parked and I'm finally charging. I left home at 4pm.

Care is nearly charged, I'm eating my way through a big bag of crisps.

It's also expensive, and the spaces are pretty small.

It's not going to be easy for those who don't have off street parking, or those that do but rent.

Messyhair321 · 26/07/2023 18:13

HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo · 26/07/2023 08:26

It won't be the people in rural areas who are the issue - they invariably have driveways and can install their own charging point.

The issue will be with urban dwellers who don't have a driveway, and rely on on street parking, sometimes having to park in the next street. The councils will need to install multiple charging points on residential streets. As far as I'm aware my local council hasn't installed a single one yet. There's about 4 at Tesco Extra, but somehow I don't think that's going to sort the whole city.

Exactly, & even if there were multiple charging points you can't have wires everywhere while charging for people to trip over in the streets.

Retrain12345 · 26/07/2023 18:16

I can’t afford a electric car and probably never will.

I expect more people will keep older cars and repair, rather than buying new on pcp every couple of years.

One of my cars is over 30 years old so that does not bother me!

Bonfire23 · 26/07/2023 18:25

PurpleButterflyWings · 26/07/2023 16:20

@SlippySarah · Today 16:03

I think it's a great idea. Most of the people who are against it are just scared of change or can't envisage themselves doing something different. The destruction of the environment and the harm caused by pollution are serious problems and we all need to change and learn to live with a bit of inconvenience.

And you don't think electric vehicles do the SLIGHTEST bit of harm to the environment?!

Fuck me sideways, the naivety and ignorance on here (from some posters) is breathtaking! Shock

And are you going to give me £30,000 for a new electric car Sarah? Are you going to come and install a charging point at the top of my driveway?

Thought not. Such a ludicrous, ill-thought out post! Hmm

That ^^
I'm not bothered about change, I work in the area of EVs!

cardibach · 26/07/2023 18:27

Lunar270 · 25/07/2023 22:35

Well look at it from a commercial POV. Would you install a load of chargers if the numbers of users was low? I've owned an EV for about 5 years and in that time, chargers have largely increased with increasing numbers on the road.

The council will install lamp post chargers for terraced houses when they start seeing more people buying. I can imagine the uproar if your council tax went up due to the fitment of thousands of chargers that weren't used. You only need look at these types of threads and people can't afford them (or don't want to) when more used stock increases and they're more affordable, things will change.

If you live in a flat, I'd imagine you are responsible, along with the other owners, for making changes to the infrastructure. There's no reason why everyone can't have their own chargers for each parking space.

Modern EV's can charge 300 miles in 20 minutes. That's like filling up with petrol.

There are very few lampposts in my street. How are people supposed to use them when they’ll be parked a long way from them. All the wires will be a hazard and people will just unplug them anyway. It’s not practical. Plus electric cars aren’t actually green anyway…

Swipe left for the next trending thread