Baby is ruining us

[fedupnow2]

I'm really fed up, frustrated and just desperate for advice. I have an 8mo and she is just the most difficult child- extremely high needs(constantly wants to be carried) but the biggest issue is her sleeping habits. This is not an exaggeration- I spend 5-6 HOURS a day trapped in my room trying to make her sleep. Every single nap time is a nightmare- she is so tired but just cannot sleep. She wants to be rocked but will wriggle furiously. If you leave her in her crib/ lie next to her then she becomes hyper and get more worked up. Dh has a very stressful job and the moment he walks in i hand her over because I'm sick of her. He is also highly frustrated because he then spends the next few hours trying to get her to sleep and he has barely sat down . Our weekends are consumed by her sleep issues. She has been like this since she was born. We have an older child who is struggling because I don't have time for him because of the baby. I would leave her to cry it out but dh doesn't want to. We have done everything- walks, routine, bath before bed, white noise. She eats very well. Please don't tell me this will end, I can't bear another second. Taking her out at any part of the day hypes her up when she gets home. I have now been sitting with her for the past 2 hours and she is furiously just thrashing about crying. Not in pain, just overtired. I've carried her and she just wants to be down. I'm just at the end of it.

@Grrrrdarling v important not to swaddle after baby is showing any signs of rolling which presumably was a long time ago for op's baby

I know… which is why I added IF YOU CAN after I suggested it 😒🙄

follow age appropriate wake windows for her age, it s 3h at 8months. that way you can put her down when she s nice and niret, not overtired and cranky, not so undertired that she ll sleep for just 30 min.
as for sleep training you can use the pick up put down method. if there are sleep associations, ditch them. put her in the crib wide awake, 10 min before the wake window finkshes, so as to give her time to fall asleep. no rocking, padding, walking, cradling, suckling, anything. baby is put in the crib wide awake. she will protest by screaming, most likely. you pick her up, soothe her, put her back down. do this every nap until she falls asleep independently. at the 4th day of aleep training there will be more protest than usual. dont forfeit.
also you can do cry it out while your husband is at work. how dare he go on about dictating how you should put her to sleep when you take the punches god knows how many times a day. i guarantee that if you sleeptrain during the day for 3 naps or how many she does, by the end of the week, she ll be sleeping nice and sound on her own. if my husband dared intervene on my sleep schedule, then he was let know that he will be the one called home from work to rock her to sleep evety nap of he s so set on coddling her. sleep training is not the devil. but start with the wake windoes and ditch the rocking

Why are you 'trying to make her sleep'? Is it that you think she needs more sleep? Have you tried her routine? It may not fit in with your wishes, but it might make her easier to live with. You have to be guided by the baby, however distasteful that might be.

I had 3 babies. The first was absolutely first class, stood up at 7 months, walked at 8 months. I had a routine 7am/11am/1pm/5pm/9pm. That suited us both. (baby and I); slept at the right time, threw his bottle out of the cot and demanded a cup, potty trained himself - and at night. Refused to have a pacifier, yet sucked the skin off his thumb and went through to peaks of several school caps. Formed words before a year. No sign of teeth until 14 mths. Refused to eat lumpy food; 18months when the next baby came and running faster than I could, thought the new baby was a present for him. The new baby was a real pain - and a shock. He refused the first feed in the morning (and never ate breakfast even when grown up) He woke up several times at night.

His brother would not let me leave him crying. At 18 months he always called me when the baby woke. This second baby did not bother to walk, or talk. His big brother fetched and carried for him and learned the pointy finger and eh eh. Would not be without a pacifier. He had croup, which was worse at night, so sitting in a steamy bathroom for ages was normal. I used to meet him from school with a bottle which he promptly drank on the back seat of the car. I felt a little ashamed until I saw the doctor's wife doing the same. They had ups and downs. They turned out fine. I knew where they were as teenagers. You cannot battle with babies. You will not spoil them by giving in to them. Stand in the middle of the room, take a few deep breaths and count to 10, then decide to let the baby bring itself up. I think you will be surprised, and perhaps baby will settle into a routine that suits you as well.

You could imagine that baby is older than 8 months and try out some entertainment for older babies. Sometimes a baby needs stimulating, and that is best done with toys normally for an older baby.
Also, why not string one of those bouncy swings from the door frame where you are most working? That exercise alone tires them out and gives you a rest. Sometimes babies cannot bear to be separated from you, and the more intelligent they are, the more they suss out that if you want them in another room, something better is going on in yours. They may not be old enough to imagine what, but their suspicious little minds will refuse to go to bed for no other reason but that they want to see what you are doing. Try to make them more secure.

I have a 3 year old that has only just started sleeping through the night. She was a terrible sleeper and once awake struggled to get back to sleep (like her Dad)…naps were ok if at home but impossible if out and about which made her overtired and worse at night.

We co slept for 3 years, this was the only way we got a normal amount of sleep with her. I hate the thought of sleep training and would never do it, most people I know that have done it said their children regressed back to not sleeping anyway.

We now also have a 3 month old and I have coslept with him from the week he was born but is is so far just a ‘Better sleeper’ than his sister…I think it’s just how they are built OP I’ve done nothing different with either of mine and son sleeps x10 better than daughter ever did

it will get better

My heart aches remembering being where you are. It almost broke me. I was completely alone as LO dad refused to be involved (he’d go to bed at 10 and refuse to get up until 7 if at work and at least 10am days off).
I tried anything and everything, and was unable to do CIO as everytime LO cried it resulted in vomit and I can’t do vomit lol.

there’s only two things that worked for us.

1. instead of focussing on nap times and sleep schedules, we followed the wake windows. If you Google wake windows, they have a rough guide of how many hours awake a child of each age (in months) should have between naps. It was hard at first as LO would protest being kept awake. But, a few days into following the wake windows and I did see an improvement in napping/sleeping.
2. I’d spoken with another mum who swore by a product called a ‘rockit zed’. This has a red light that promotes the production of melatonin which helps you sleep. It also vibrates and stimulates car vibrations. This little gadget was an absolute god send.

don’t get me wrong, up until hitting 18months old she’s never slept great, but with the use of wake windows and ‘howie’ our rockit zed man, I regained so much sanity and was a much better mum for it.

for your other little one, do you have any relatives that could watch the baby for a couple of hours one weekend day so you and dh can spend some quality time with the oldest?

I'll repeat, you'd never stop changing a baby's nappy because it's crying. It's kind of the same. Sleep is a basic need. My 2 kids were diametrically opposed in terms of temperament so adjusted approach slightly but sleep training DOES work.
I don't know anyone whose kids 'regressed' after sleep training if done consistently.
I do know of several who still, aged 14, have to be in the vicinity (or their DH or GP) for child to sleep! Massive issues, including anxiety around school trips. Extreme, yes, but not unusual.

Mine just fell asleep in the pushchair or on my chest. I was never able to get them to lie in a cot and fall asleep. At night I lay next to the cot until she was asleep or eventually she co-slept - for 10yrs! Haha, so be aware, maybe short term less pain, long term pain! In your position I’d do sleep training, when it’s impacting on your life as much as it is. Speak to your DH, tell him you need to do something as you’re at breaking point. Or if you can afford it, professional help

Sleep training absolutely saved us. For us it was about an hour of crying on night1. Then 5 mins the next night. SO worth it

Totally off subject but could she be teething? Have u spoke to HV for advice ?

I was really against sleep training as well but enough was enough last week. He is 9 months and didn’t know how to settle himself where I would get him to sleep put him in cot but if he was to wake that was it. Naps were always on me and with school holidays coming up I needed him to be able to nap in cot so last Monday we did it. Left him a minute went it resettle then increased it by 1 minute intervals maximum 6 minutes it took an hour first night, second and third night 15 minutes and since then just goes down I hope it continues. With the naps it took longer wasnt til Friday that he actually went down by himself. I really hope this is it now as I go back to work soon and just want him to be nice and settled with his naps and sleep.

No advice but just please know you aren’t alone. My second child was exactly like this. I was miserable. (Not saying you have this but) I had PND with him. I just felt like I couldn’t enjoy him. Absolutely wishing away the minutes until my husband came home. Nap times just went out the window (when my first born had napped like a dream). We ended up doing half a night each with him as he wouldn’t sleep at night either. I went to bed at 7.30/8pm (same time as my 2yo) and my husband stayed up and worked and rocked the Moses basket/held the baby until around 1am then we swapped and he would go to bed and sleep until he had to get up for work. It was crap and we had to bottle feed for my sanity but at least I was getting 4/5ish hours solid sleep a night… sorry just want you to know you’re not alone. I felt like I didn’t like my baby and I couldn’t bear another second. Worst time of my life. I know you said you didn’t want to hear this but he’s now 5 and a lovely wee boy and the guilt I feel for feeling that way about him is unreal but I couldn’t help it. Sleep deprivation and caring for kids is so tough. So, so tough. And frustrating and exasperating and infuriating. I don’t miss a single second of newborn/baby phase. My husband got a vasectomy when baby no.2 wasn’t even 6 months old… THAT is how tough that baby was! Please try and take care of yourself. Sending lots of love x

Please don't sleep train. I can tell from your post you care and it'll be horrifically stressful for you all, and it's no guarantee it'll work and you have to do it again and again whenever they get I'll, or a new development. It's miserable.

If you are able to then get professional help from a HOLISTIC sleep specialist. They don't agree with CIO but will be able to offer a plan tailored to your needs. DM for recommendations.

In terms of naps and wanting to be held, have you tried baby wearing. I have an Ergo 360 and if my 10mo gets hysterical I can pop him in, and either go for a a walk somewhere quietish or just potter around the house getting on with stuff. You're chest to chest so it's very calming and snuggly and almost impossible for a baby to not nod off.

Unpopular as it is on MN l found The Gina Ford method brilliant for mine, sorted sleep for both. Without lots of stressful crying too.

Why shouldn't she? If she wishes too. Lots of studies have shown that sleep training can be hugely positive and negate poor MH and post-natal tendencies. Sleep is important. For everyone! Some might be able to cope but not everyone can.

Poor husband being handed screaming baby the minute he walks through door!

Hello. How are you getting on OP?

Please contact your local Health visiting team. They will help you put a plan together and come out and visit you, as you need mental health support and advice to help baby sleep (if needed) once an assessment has been done.

Please don't let your crossness show when you're with her, she doesn't understand and crying is a symptom of frustration/emotional need. There are many techniques to try and something will work. There is clearly trauma here for you and her and it needs exploring in order to reset and start again.

When you say 'no sleep' you need to be more specific. How many hours does she sleep at night? Where does she sleep? What does she sleep in? When does she wake up? Do you know her wake windows? Is she over stimulated or under stimulated? Is she over heated/over dressed? Is she wearing tight clothes/uncomfortable somehow? Too hot? Too cold? Hungry? Over full? Does she feel your stress/annoyance with her? Teething? Headaches? Not tired. Really not tired. Do you try jiggling her to sleep - does she hate this/uncomfortable? Happy to co sleep safely? (Lullaby Trust if you try this) is she still in your room? How often have you tried to the carriers/where, have you tried them when she is in her best mood for positive association? Same with pram etc..

There are also many more questions that need to be asked so that help/the correct advice/support can be given.

What are the things you love most about her? What makes her giggle? What makes you smile when she giggles? What is her favourite food?

As you can see, this is what I mean in regards to helping you go back to basics.

Here if you need support.

OP already sounds horrifically stressed, as does her baby. There's no guarantee it will work but there's no chance at all if she doesn't even give it a try, it works for so many babies and doesn't have to be CIO.

I've never had to sleep train again and again either.

I love this reply/response 💓

My DS1 was like this. I remember seeing a quote that stuck with me and it was, "sometimes babies want mum more than they want sleep."

My DS1 now sleeps when we sleep. He is tired but just chilling next to me awake/in buggy awake ect ect. Sometimes he'll sleep at 12am and wake at 8am at 16 months. Might have a 30 minute nap. He has a lot of downtime but doesn't always actively sleep now. Just relaxes. It works for him and me.

Gina Ford! Would stay well clear of this woman's advice. Horrible.

My nightmare baby dd1 is now in her early 30s and loves her sleep but when I look back at videos we took when she was a baby I can see we were not leaving her alone to relax. She was our first but the first whimper etc we would rock her, pick her up etc. We did do sleep training with her in the end!
( we didn't make that mistake with our other 3)

Hire someone to help or sleep train, my daughter was the same - but worse.