Baby is ruining us

[fedupnow2]

I'm really fed up, frustrated and just desperate for advice. I have an 8mo and she is just the most difficult child- extremely high needs(constantly wants to be carried) but the biggest issue is her sleeping habits. This is not an exaggeration- I spend 5-6 HOURS a day trapped in my room trying to make her sleep. Every single nap time is a nightmare- she is so tired but just cannot sleep. She wants to be rocked but will wriggle furiously. If you leave her in her crib/ lie next to her then she becomes hyper and get more worked up. Dh has a very stressful job and the moment he walks in i hand her over because I'm sick of her. He is also highly frustrated because he then spends the next few hours trying to get her to sleep and he has barely sat down . Our weekends are consumed by her sleep issues. She has been like this since she was born. We have an older child who is struggling because I don't have time for him because of the baby. I would leave her to cry it out but dh doesn't want to. We have done everything- walks, routine, bath before bed, white noise. She eats very well. Please don't tell me this will end, I can't bear another second. Taking her out at any part of the day hypes her up when she gets home. I have now been sitting with her for the past 2 hours and she is furiously just thrashing about crying. Not in pain, just overtired. I've carried her and she just wants to be down. I'm just at the end of it.

Yes, I agree with this. If he's not ready to sleep there is no point putting him down. We used to do the same as wibdib, keep our babies up entertained by what was going on, and when they started to look as though they might be ready for bed we took them up without too many protests.
If he's a busy child he'd be upset to be put to bed, better to keep him with you until he's ready. And I certainly wouldn't go on trying to force them to nap when they simply got themselves worked up about it.
We have four children and only two of them persisted with this behaviour for long. Once they realised they were not going to be taken to bed and left alone they calmed down and eventually let us take them up earlier.
Sorry to state the obvious, but few babies sleep/wake/pllay to the same timetables as other babies, though you can usually get an idea of what is an individual's natural sleep pattern.
There will be people who tell you that you can force a routine on them, and this may be the case with a very placid baby, but you could be fighting a losing battle for the next couple of years unless you relax your timetable.

Sleep training is not just leaving them to cry for hours and hours on end.

The kindest thing for everyone all round would be to consult a sleep trainer and get this sorted.
Nobody (including baby) is very happy at the moment. A couple of weeks (tops) of some sleep training will be a lot less cruel and stressful all round than keeping on with what you’re all doing.

Surely it’s better to let the baby cry a little bit as part of a gentle sleep training method than resent them for being born and ruining the family?

The Baby Whisperer method worked for DD who sounds very similar to your baby.

i promise you, you wouldn’t. I tried for many years and four rounds of IVF before I had my little boy. Despite that, I had PNAD and so the exhaustion was worse than anything I’d experienced before. If you find hearing stories about babies traumatic (I know I did) that you need to make comments like these, I’d avoid these threads about babies.

It's fine to think that you would never,ever try sleep training, BUT, if you have ever been in the situation of being totally exhausted, up and down several/many times in the night to a non sleeping baby, and it's night after night with no respite,dead on your feet during the day and on the verge of tears constantly due to complete exhaustion, then you really can't imagine the desperation. I mean sleep deprivation is actually used as torture, isn't it?

Thinking that 1 night or 1 week of sleep training is going to cause a baby actual trauma is really stretching a point, controlled crying isn't cry it out. Using the method where the parent slowly withdraws from the bedroom isn't going to cause trauma. But being exhausted will cause health issues to the parent or might cause them to accidentality cause harm to themselves or others.

I really feel for you, my little girl is now approaching 2 but was very high needs and very difficult to get to sleep. I'm still breastfeeding to sleep which I'd like to stop but can't face the alternative.

We tried sleep training but it didn't work for us. Purchased a programme with support but she started throwing up as soon as left to cry for less than a minute so they refunded me. Calm & Bright on Instagram were good to talk to and might be worth a look. It's basically Ferber method.

One thing about your post jumped out - I have read that sitting early can be a sign of tension which can cause really unsettled sleep. Have you had any osteo/bodywork done? Have a look at Fox & the Moon Sleep consultant on instagram. Totally different approach to the one I mentioned before but I found both useful to work out what to try.

I had two that were terrible sleepers - went on in total for 4.5 years. They would catnap for 30 mins and then scream for hours including during the day. My only relief was a very loud radio and a lovely neighbour who would babysit for 3 hours at her house once a fortnight. My then H used to do all the overtime he could get, and accept every invitation for drinks after work to avoid coming home. I truly believe I was close to a breakdown.

By 3 they were both finally sleeping through the night - it was an absolute miracle they made it to that age!

My eldest DGD showed signs at 6 weeks of going down the same route and my DD took her for cranial osteopathy and it was like a miracle. From the first session there was a noticeable improvement and after 4 sessions she was an amazing sleeper.

Like my two, my DGD was born very quickly, and I now believe that this contributed to my DDs sleep issues, which were then compounded by an extremely stressed and struggling mother (me). For years I struggled to be in places where a baby was crying and have left several partly filled supermarket trolleys in an aisle and just walked out.

The only compensation for all that awfulness is that by the time they were teenagers they were normal sleepy teens and I did rather enjoy waking them up for school!

Both my, now adult,kids walked at 7 months. The first hardly slept, the second slept really well from birth.I sleep trained the oldest at 18 months, I'm going to say it was really accidental sleep training , as I was so despondent I sat on the stairs crying while he hollered at me for 5 mins. When I went back to him he was well away with an angelic smile on his face. The younger had a blip when I went back to work, so the first weekend after I returned I did the sleep training.

I know it doesn't work for everyone, but personally I would give it a go.

My 7 month is like this, screaming tired thrashes like a salmon and won’t nap. What I do:

• no scheduled naps
• strap her in buggy and go on long walks when she gets ratty (she screams for 5 mins and then falls asleep - often will wake up when stop moving so I just keep walking)
• she sleeps in bed next to me with constant access to boob
• introduced ‘chill time’ - no expectation of naps but we hang out quietly on the bed or sofa. I play soft gentle music (she loves the row row your boat and snowflake songs on super simple songs YouTube) and we just relax, sometimes with massage. She rarely falls asleep but is hopefully learning to be more relaxed
• no bed time, when she is fractious and tired I go up with her and we snuggle and fall asleep together - sometimes, occasionally, she will fall into such a deep sleep I can get up and do something for an hour or so, but this isn’t guaranteed.

It works for me, but you need to try and find ways imo to remove the stress you feel around her sleeping as this will (no judgement) be making it worse, they pick up on your stress. If sleep training is something you want to try go ahead but try and do it when you feel a little more sane about her sleeping because as it stands you are setting it up to be hugely stressful for her.

Put something with your smell into the pram with baby. Use one of those wheat filled microwave heaters into it so it's warm not hot. You might find she will sleep in her pram then. Sorry this sounds like I'm preempting something, but every high functioning ASD child I know was like this.

I think you need to talk to your DH again about sleep training too.

The other thing to think about is getting a crib that rocks on its own. Expensive, but worth it if it means you get a break and your DS gets time with mum and dad. X

Oh Op I had to comment because I've been there , exact same situation, I'd definitely cry at least once a day with frustration, dh same, would come in the door and I'd either be crying or handing baby over to him still in his work clothes. No time for ourselves etc. I paid for a sleep therapist to do out a plan , it cost me £350 but I am more than happy to email it to you if you like, dm me. It doesn't last forever pet even though it feels like it will sending hugs

My son was the same, I took him to a osteopath, it calmed him down.

I had three like this. We let them sleep if they nodded off when we took them out (they hated lying flat in a pram so sling or pushchair or carseat), co-slept and basically took them to bed when we went. I also went back to work at 7 months with all of them. We muddled through and eventually they got the hang of sleeping but just did not need the amount that their peers seemed to.

It sounds really hard. 8 months was also the time I remember thinking I can’t take it anymore with the bedtime sleep issues. We have twins - one slept easily one didn’t - and tbh it’s still the same and they’re now 12. So I think some of it is temperament and probably he just needed more secure attachment (co-sleeping, sling etc) but difficult with the two of them. I literally never bothered with naps as they wouldn’t sleep at the same time - I just let them sleep in the buggy when we were out.

It sounds like some of your upset is also guilt about your older son. I would really prioritise this - and just insist that you or your husband spend at least 15 mins dedicated 1-1 time with him during the evening and definitely at bedtime. It won’t make a difference to the baby but it will to your son and you will also feel better about it.

I was in exactly the same situation my 5 year old was a dream then my second came along and he’s just been an absolute nightmare. He would cat Nap for 10-20 mins at a time and be miserable. I did end up leaving him to cry and did sleep training although not everyone would agree it was best for us. He would be up all and and all night and I was loosing my shit. He’s 20 months old now and for the past month has been sleeping through 7-6 with a 1.5-2 hour nap in the day. I started by getting that 1 solid nap sorted each day weather I was at home in the car or in the pram. Your husband needs to get a grip if you don’t do anything nothing will change and you’ll al be miserable

Someone else has suggested this too but it might be worth checking out cranial osteopathy alongside any other methods you go for. It helped with my daughter's colic which was making her very unsettled in the day.

That’s not what I said, but feel free put your own narrative on it.
I used The Baby Whisperer which was brilliant, but never left my kids to cry.
Its easy to say humans are more robust than that, but spend a bit of time looking into what I’ve said, these things leave their mark.
Obviously a parents mental health is equally as important, but not at the expense of the baby.
Both mine had their issues, but conscious and aware parenting is important.

Sleep training is nothing to do with leaving your baby to cry for hours on end.

it’s all about routine. Sticking to it. It isn’t fun, it can take time depending on which routine you choose. I have trained many many children, singles twins, triplets and a couple of quadruplets and their parents. You have to follow it through religiously. One slip and you have to start all over again from the start. It usually takes 3 to 5 days but it is brutal for the parents lack of sleep but you are already exhausted and there is light at the end of tunnel.
I’am a sleep trainer of 30 years.
**

In summary:

1. Osteopathy
2. Keep her stimulated and busy during the day
3. Let her sleep when she wants to - no 'scheduled' naps.

Your baby's only 'language' right now to express worry or hunger or whatever, is crying. Imagine if you were alone on an alien planet and were hungry or thirsty or in pain or scared. No matter how you tried to convey this to the inhabitants, the message did not get through to them. And if their responses were to hit you or scream at you or ignore you, how would that make you feel? Sad, depressed, more anxious, and desolate? Certainly not loved or liked or respected. A frightening scenario.

So I'm sorry, but to leave a baby to cry, is not a good and kind thing to do. Comforting and hugging and kissing are what the babies need and so learns that there is someone who cares and is there to love and support them! I remember in the first months wishing I had a sound-proof rubbish bin that I could just pop my baby in for a short while so I could get some sleep, but obviously did not.

I did lots of walking outdoors, going to the local park where she was stimulated by contact with other babies and animals and people and flowers, and grass to crawl on, and massage, and lots of skin-to skin contact, and playing in the bath, and 'reading' picture books, and talking, singing and dancing, and more importantly, never stuck to a rigid schedule of naps, and bedtimes, and meal times, etc. I did nurse on demand though. Started introducing solids from 7 months.

Hang in there.

Also, whenever you go past a mirror, look at yourself and smile - this releases endorphins and calms you. Sounds silly, but it is effective.

I quite agree, I was losing my mind with sleep deprivation and could not see the wood for the trees.

Husband had to take over, he knew what was best for us all and he was right.

I really empathise OP. It’s so hard when you have an older child - lots of the suggestions here, whilst not stupid at all, aren’t much use when you have an older child who’s desperate for some 121 time with you and to read or play Lego with you or whatever.

You wouldn't stop changing a baby's nappies just because it's crying?

Lots of research show no long term effects from controlled crying/gradual withdrawal techniques. Some studies show quite the opposite which is not surprising, as sleep is a basic need for both babies and parents who are well rested are obviously more likely to be better carers and important for their sanity too. (Societies where co-sleeping is common also tend to have a large support network unlike what we usually have here).

It's about self-regulation and at some point the baby will feel more secure for being able to self-regulate/sooth, including at bed time. You want baby to associate their room/sleep environment with sleep rather than with you really - doesn't mean you can't cuddle before bed and at other times but you want baby to be awake (but sleepy) in their cot before you put them down.

Good luck! Baby Whisperer method worked with my 2 (very different temperament) kids. Both great sleepers, loving and well adjusted teens now!

Swaddle, if you can, & as long as child is in a safe place you sit outside the door & leave them to it.
It maybe that she just isn’t a big napper.
How does she sleep once she is down for the night?
My LG would only sleep for an hour or two at most during the day from 4months but, thankfully, slept 8+hrs at night.
They are all so different.
Honestly it is hard but for your own sanity you need to put some sleep strict rules in place.
Right now she will be teething so slap on some bonjella, give bottle/feed & after a play lay them in the cot & let them play while you do your things.
If they attention cry play peekaboo at the door but don’t pick up. Again hard not to do but he/she will learn.

My LG loved her light up mobile at this age, started to stand up in cot so dangling one had to go.
She had a vTec music, light & sounds one that secured to the side of the cot. It came with 15, 30 & 45 minute timer AND a remote control which would activate the soft light & moving projection on the ceiling from bedroom door.

Deep breath, the 1st year is so hard, but you have got this ❤

Been there at the 8/9 month mark and I near lost the plot.

Get in touch with your health visitor for additional support and ask if they have a family support worker or nursery nurse. Someone you can talk about the sleep and can keep in regular touch with you for a bit.
You and your partner are both also sleep deprived and that makes it 100% more difficult dealing with little one and can also kick start mental health problems. We all need sleep! Also speak about this with someone just to vent.

You and your partner then have to take turns to get a couple hours solid sleep then. Ask friends and family for help if available but I know from experience that's not a given. Go to bed at 8pm sounds ridiculous early but at this point in time any opportunity you can get shut eye will give you energy to deal with your child's sleep problems.

The only way any one got any sleep in my house was co sleeping and I am not regretting starting it.