Will DH ever change? How can I get through to him?

[NewMomma21]

Looking for advice.

Married to DH for 4 years. We have an 18 month old and I’m almost 30 weeks pregnant. DH has a stressful job; he earns a very good salary and works long hours and travels abroad frequently. He is a good provider and great fun socially.

I would have considered myself happily married but recently I am becoming increasingly resentful of DH. Although he provides financially he does nothing to keep the house running. He doesn’t ever put a wash on. He lets the bins run to overflowing. He does absolutely no cleaning or cooking and frequently will leave a mess behind him whenever he is in the house. Often leaves clothes/towels on the floor. I have to ask multiple, multiple times over the course of days to do things I am physically unable to do (for example lifting heavy loads of washing, emptying bins, quick tidy of the garden). I am left to do everything around the house. Although I work FT I am off for the summer, it doesn’t matter if I’m in work or not he still contributes nothing. On the weekends he often plays golf for one day. On the days he is home and off when LO naps he more or often than not gets into bed for two hours for a nap or scroll on his phone. This is time during the day I use to do a tidy, load of washing, hoover etc.

Recently he was away for over a week (longest trip since covid) and it was just me and LO. Life was much easier. There was no mess to clean up. The house was clean and tidy. No picking up his clothes and litter. I found the extent to which it was easier shocking.

I have tried so many times to ask him for help. Begged. Nagged. Gotten angry, gotten upset. Nothing ever gets through to him. He just doesn’t seem to care. I feel increasingly like I am mother to a toddler and messy, selfish teenager.

Has anyone any advice? I don’t know how else to get through to him

YABU- he contributes financially and he is unlikely to ever change
YANBU- he needs to start pulling his weight

OP take heart—even though nobody can give you any magic words to open his eyes you have learned a lot on this thread. Your eyes have been opened and you can see that you have choices to make. One of those choices is no longer begging/pleading/nagging so thats actually a big saving of time and effort. You can decide to keep him like an expensive pet or a valued paying customer at a fancy hotel. Or you can dump him. But at least you no longer have to doubt yourself.

If he doesn't have any personality disorder then I suggest marriage counselling as a safe space to raise this

An update. I spoke to DH tonight. Told him how his behaviour has made me feel. The bad example for DC. The physical toll it has all taken on me. How I have reached breaking point.

He predictably told me to outsource everything. He said it was over the top to get so upset over a bit of food on the floor or a towel left on the ground. He said he would do more once on annual leave and to provide him with a list of things that that he can do.

I said our marriage was in real jeopardy if things didn’t change and I was upset he wasn’t more concerned at my obvious distress. He said he couldn’t change my mind if separation was my preference and that marriages don’t end over things like hoovering.

Feeling just bereft.

He really is an arrogant shit, isn’t he? 😔

He’s just on a different planet. The idea that contributing to his marriage can only be happen on annual leave.

I wish I could be more encouraging but I really don’t see any way forward with this level of casual, clueless entitlement.

I’m frustrated just reading your update. Im so sorry that even when you’ve spoken he’s still doubled down. Surely once you’ve stated that these things matter so much to you then it should matter to him, regardless of how trivial it is to him?

In response to “marriages don’t end over hoovering” I’d probably have clapped back, well this one does. If it’s a simple as picking up a hoover in his eyes then why can he not even do that - saying divorce is your preference seems mightily unfair by someone who acknowledges they basically aren’t willing to fight for the relationship or make any compromises anyway? I really don’t know how you move forward if he won’t take on any responsibility or acknowledge any issue between you. Not simply outsourcing the work, I mean the lack of understanding and respect.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sinkbb_9055288/amp

I would usually suggest asking him to read this but fuck me, he really is an arrogant prick isn't he? What a disappointing reaction from him, I'm gutted for you OP.

He's telling you he's not going to change, he will mitigate using the absolute minimum effort he can possibly give, and resent you for doing so.

I couldn't spend the rest of my life with someone like that.

He said he couldn’t change my mind if separation was my preference
Good grief! He has now said it out loud hasn't he. He doesn't care enough to fight for you.

and that marriages don’t end over things like hoovering.
Yes they do. Time and time again as it's usually the last straw. Do you have the link to the dishwasher/divorce link handy, if so send it him. But honestly, i think it's over as he won't change and I don't think you can unsee what is happening.

I am so sorry OP, it really is a horrible feeling

And he clearly doesn't give a shit that it bothers you.

This is what people like this fail to understand. Sure, there's some people who are complete neat freaks (my mum is one) who expect their unrealistic expectations to be upheld by everyone. But it's not unrealistic to wipe up spills or replace used toilet rolls. It's not unrealistic that daily chores are shared equally between able persons in the household. And it's disrespectful and thoughtless to just not do it with the explanation that you 'don't see/don't care' about mess.

I don't think he'll change. But that doesn't mean you can't.

Thank you for the supportive replies. I really do appreciate them.

A lot of the replies on the thread really helped me describe my feelings to him. I said if it mattered to me then it should matter to both of us. He shrugged that off as quite ridiculous that housework should mean so much to a person. He categorically refused to apologise for the sleeping when DC does, he works hard and is tired. He said I was just nagging and repeating myself and there was no point engaging.

I am very shocked at his response. DH is from a separated family and he seemed unmoved by the suggestion of it. I suspect he thinks I’m just pregnant and hysterical.

I decided to sleep in the spare room . His very presence is just too upsetting. I can’t sleep thinking about where to from here.

I'm not even that tidy but I couldn't/wouldn't tolerate this. if he can't/won't change, then I would need him to pay someone to clean up after him. or I would have to leave him, I would find it too disrespectful/dismissive/depressing. I would be miserable

He's really successful at controlling the conversation isn't he. He minimises anything you say and turns the tables by saying you are ' ridiculous' which implies you are the cause of the problem. It is not going to be possible to have an equal relationship if you cannot have equality in your conversations, and this degree of conversational control suggests he feels comfortable controlling you with regard to this issues.

He probably has deeply misogynistic views that cleaning and domestic work are services women are meant to provide to men, and he would quite like to protect his interests of not contributing to that.

It is really unfortunate that many men don't show their true colours until you are pregnant/married and effectively "trapped".

I'm sorry you find yourself here @NewMomma21 . This website explains how he is using the conversation to get his needs met but he's not interested in your getting yours met.

www.talkingwise.com/conversational-control-explained

I‘m so sorry to read your update OP. He just doesn’t give a flying shite about anything but himself, does he.

His excuse for laying about is he’s tired from working - you work far harder yet it’s fine for you to be a skivvy? Him earning more than you doesn’t trump the fact you do twice the work.

I know this must be devastating for you but it sounds like he is an inherently selfish and arrogant man. As awful as this is to accept, it will give you a lot of power when you feel up to rebuilding a life without him draining the life out of you with his contempt.

Is he a narcissist? Because the way he’s talking to you, minimizing everything you say, and gaslighting you sure make him look like one.

People only change if they want to. He doesn't want to. You have been extremely clear and he has answered . Now time to decide what you want.

I say this as someone with a similar partner (though I don’t currently work) he is unlikely to change much. I’ve made some minimal progress in the 10 years we have been together. I would pick one small thing and try and get him doing that. Maybe just hanging up towel after shower? Don’t nag/ask about anything else just focus on the one task.

This occurred to me as well....... This psychologist specialises in narcissism - does anything he says resonate with you, @NewMomma21 ?

Pleading with him to do something as basic as hanging up his towel? How on earth would this resolve the fundamental issue in this relationship - namely the total lack of respect and the fact that he simply does not care about his wife's exhaustion and distress?

@NewMomma21 - this is never going to get better. What you have been dealing with is what you'll be faced with for the rest of your life if you stay and try and make this work.

I think you should plan your exit. Imagine never having to pick up his shit. Ever again! Head over to the Divorce board and you'll get the advice you need to get out of this mess 💐

I think the main issue is that your husband is utterly self absorbed and unable or unwilling to see things from your perspective. You must me exhausted and his attitude does show a real lack of care and empathy. I'm so sorry that you are having such a difficult time and hope you can reach a decision right for you and your DC. Your husband doesn't see the problem and I really don't think given his track record it's going to change.

Wow
What a stunning lack of empathy and support for a tired and pregnant wife. That's what ends marriages.
OP you deserve a lot more than this.

He was like this when you met him. He’s been showing you how he is ever since, he’s never going to change.

The question is whether you’re prepared to accept this. If not, your options are to get a cleaner to come around twice a week or leave him.

You poor thing. I’m so disappointed in him for you, especially by his latest response. You are not, by any stretch of the imagination, being unreasonable. Write him a chores list?? Are you his manager?? Beyond insulting. If this were me I would be insisting on marriage counselling immediately or making plans to go stay with family indefinitely. The idea that he could simply let you go rather than work with you on this is astounding.

Cleaners don’t cut it though is the problem - with two young kids, cooking and laundry, the house is close to back to square one within half a day. And you need to remove clutter/mess for cleaners to clean properly.

If outsourcing is REALLY the only option, then a daily housekeeper is probably the best bet.

I agree it sounds like a daily housekeeper would be the level of outsourcing OP needs if you go down that road. I once lived with 3 guys in my flatshare days and two of them were so inconsiderate and messy which meant the bathroom and kitchen ended up getting dirty very quickly literally minutes after the weekly cleaner left.

OP, sorry to hear your update. It seems your husband has put into words the lack of consideration and care he has for you, which he’s already been showing through the way he treats your shared living space. But to hear it out loud must be quite a shock. it’s very sad he would prefer separation than just cleaning up after himself like an adult. He could well be bluffing and May change his mind if you put your plan to leave into action but it’s still upsetting that his first response wasn’t to reassure you he would change.