Will DH ever change? How can I get through to him?

[NewMomma21]

Looking for advice.

Married to DH for 4 years. We have an 18 month old and I’m almost 30 weeks pregnant. DH has a stressful job; he earns a very good salary and works long hours and travels abroad frequently. He is a good provider and great fun socially.

I would have considered myself happily married but recently I am becoming increasingly resentful of DH. Although he provides financially he does nothing to keep the house running. He doesn’t ever put a wash on. He lets the bins run to overflowing. He does absolutely no cleaning or cooking and frequently will leave a mess behind him whenever he is in the house. Often leaves clothes/towels on the floor. I have to ask multiple, multiple times over the course of days to do things I am physically unable to do (for example lifting heavy loads of washing, emptying bins, quick tidy of the garden). I am left to do everything around the house. Although I work FT I am off for the summer, it doesn’t matter if I’m in work or not he still contributes nothing. On the weekends he often plays golf for one day. On the days he is home and off when LO naps he more or often than not gets into bed for two hours for a nap or scroll on his phone. This is time during the day I use to do a tidy, load of washing, hoover etc.

Recently he was away for over a week (longest trip since covid) and it was just me and LO. Life was much easier. There was no mess to clean up. The house was clean and tidy. No picking up his clothes and litter. I found the extent to which it was easier shocking.

I have tried so many times to ask him for help. Begged. Nagged. Gotten angry, gotten upset. Nothing ever gets through to him. He just doesn’t seem to care. I feel increasingly like I am mother to a toddler and messy, selfish teenager.

Has anyone any advice? I don’t know how else to get through to him

YABU- he contributes financially and he is unlikely to ever change
YANBU- he needs to start pulling his weight

I imagine you're feeling done in this morning OP.

It sounds as though your DH was inadequately parented. He clearly didn't go through the epiphany that most people experience as a teenager (or some in their first houseshare) where they discover that everyone is required to pick up after themselves and help towards household chores. Decent parents train their teenagers to gradually take on more chores; rubbish parents don't and their children are usually the ones who get a shock in their first houseshare that there's no magic fairy following them around cleaning up! If your DH's friends told you that he was awful to live with then it sounds as though he didn't care about causing others hassle by not doing his share, which suggests a bigger failing in his upbringing, he's not been taught to care for others.

I don't know if that can be changed. He's missed the crucial teen time in life where most people learn to care for others and to not be fundamentally selfish. Even if the heavens opened and he had a sudden epiphany, it's probably too steep a learning curve for him to become a useful partner and parent.

So he works hard is tiered ergo you don't send him back to mummy

OP, I'm so sad for you. Like I said in a previous post up thread, annual leave is probably around 10% of the year. So I would ask him why he thinks it is acceptable for him to do sweet fuck all around the house at least 90% of the year, yet you are expected to do it? Just because he earns good money, doesn't mean he is allowed to be a slovenly pig. You also work FT!

And no, people don't divorce specifically over hoovering. People divorce because their partner disrespects them and are awful to live with (and a whole host of other reasons).

The ONLY solution to your problem is one of the following: (a) he has a personality transplant and completely overhauls his attitude (you have given him ample opportunity for this to happen and he couldn't be bothered) or (b) you hire a live-in housekeeper who picks up after him (realistically the housekeeper would have to be there during all waking hours in order to keep on top of his mess and this will cost a fortune so probably isn't feasible) or (c) divorce him and let him go back to his mother so she can happily pick up after him.

But given the way he has treated you up until now, I wouldn't even go with option (b). He needs a complete wake up call.

What exactly does he add to you life? Think about the answer to that question. It sounds like it's just money. And in a divorce he'd have to support you financially. You may have to cut back on luxuries etc but that's a small price to pay for not having to deal with that enormous level of disrespect every day.

He said he couldn’t change my mind if separation was my preference and that marriages don’t end over things like hoovering.

Email him the link to the ‘She divorced me for dishes by the sink’. In the email, say in writing it is not ‘housework’ you’re upset by, it’s his lack of consideration and selfishness. Tell it like it is.

For now, get the housekeeper. Have your baby, recover, regroup. Bide your time.

OP, I could have written your post. My exDH was exactly the same. I read somewhere "the things that niggle at the start are the reasons you leave later".

I don't think he will change. And you can outsource all your like, but the disrespect and lack of empathy will only manifest in other ways.

Good luck x

I think I'd counter that conversation with a "I'm too tired and too pregnant to deal with your lack of respect right now, but please know that once this baby is here and I'm back to full strength, things will be changing around here. And I think it's fair to tell you that likely means a separation. The ball is on you to change, and not on me to lower my expectations".

DH is from a separated family and he seemed unmoved by the suggestion of it. I suspect he thinks I’m just pregnant and hysterical.

That's what I suspected too. And I suppose the fact that you're about to give birth to his second child makes him feel even more secure, because what woman wants to separate at such a vulnerable time?

The fact that he accused you of nagging shows his attitude to women too. It's such a throwback to a time when women really had no choice but to stay in an unhappy marriage, so their voicing their displeasure was just "nagging" as opposed to them making a last ditch attempt to fix the marriage before filing for divorce. It must be really upsetting for you to hear him come right out and say these things. You said he at first refused to stop socialising days before your first birth; I would guess there are far more ways that he has shown his priority is for himself and not you throughout your marriage

I’m just so sorry. He sounds like he is really willing to lose you and the children to prove a point. The point being that he and his work are important and you all are just bit players.

Thank you all again for the lovely supportive replies.

I made the point about AL being 10% of his time and he needs to pull his weight 100% of the time. I did say all I am expecting is reasonable contribution relative to his long hours.

Once again not MILs responsibility or fault but she really does not help the situation. She arranges all birthday and Christmas gifts for him so he just shows up for the giving. She will go to the shop for him if I ask for something. She encourages DH to take as much time for himself as needed.

He has been in touch today from the office today with an apology for how he handled the conversation and for not doing enough and recognising that only contributing during AL is inadequate. I can’t understand why he couldn’t have just said that last night, he was so indifferent to my obvious distress. I told him if he were questioning the viability of our marriage I would be devastated.

Im just so exhausted at this point. Physically and mentally.

I'm sorry OP. This isn't really about housekeeping or hoovering. I mean it is on one level - anyone should be upset at the level of filth and slovenliness exhibited by your husband. But there are ways to minimise that, I suppose. I have a friend who is the last word in not seeing dirt/not caring etc. It is a bit shocking tbh. But she has a daily housekeeper and is a fantastic person in other ways and contributes to the home (and not just money).

The more important thing is that he is happily dismissing the distress of his pregnant wife and telling you that he would rather separate (blaming you of course) than actually pick up a towel from the floor.

Did he show any concern for the physical labour you have to do while pregnant? That isn't normal. I remember when I was heavily pregnant with my first baby and we were moving apartments. A guy at work said to dh "make sure Pallisers doesn't lift anything" He didn't even know me but he was concerned for my health.

Was there any concern at all for how you felt? There is something missing in him if he is so removed from the emotions of the person he is supposed to love most in the world.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

I do think perhaps that his default is very defensive and so he couldn’t respond empathetically to you in the moment. Which is truly shit but not quite as bad as him totally sticking on his initial position.

My first question is - yes he’s apologised and said X Y Z. But has HE offered a plan of action?? What will HE now do to save his marriage?

Because of course his crap offer of help during his AL was actually put right back on YOU. You make him a list. Ffs. He is suggesting that you manage him.

All of course the mental load that so many women are meant to bear for every bloody thing in a relationship.

For me, that mental load involved also finding all the ways to try and save my marriage to my ex.

Push back hard on this. Tell him he is an adult. He needs to show you how he plans to take action here and stick to it. Lazy sod.

I would buy in all the help you can get- daily cleaner, laundry service, childcare, gardener, meals.

Not because it will solve any problems with him but because it will give you a bit of thinking space. That’s all I would use it for. To buy you some time to do some thinking. See the wood for the trees.

I fully understand this is about the way he treats you- it’s a pretty extreme example of a complete lack of empathy and lack of respect that would make anyone feel dreadful(I actually wonder if he has an undiagnosed personality disorder, not that it is an excuse).

All if this is by-the-by.

Being married to this man is making you extremely unhappy. All blame aside, the point is you can’t live your life like this.

Definitely schedule counselling (if anything for your own peace of mind that you tried everything).

I’m sorry you are in this position, especially at such an important and testing time in your life.

I agree about the mental load. I explained I’m responsible for absolutely everything and it’s mentally crippling to have that burden all the time. It’s not a partnership and really adds to my sense of being a mother type figure and not a wife.

I absolutely agree that he is defensive and couldn’t be empathetic in the moment. I’m sure he viewed it as a character assassination but I kept emphasising that the issue is not the towel or the bins but what it represents. He just can’t see how a full bin is an issue or how it is disrespectful to me and DC. His attitude was very much it’ll get done eventually so what’s the issue.

In relation to the physical toll it’s all taking he cannot understand why I bring this on myself. Why absolutely everything is not sent to a laundry service. He can’t see that that is also work, just in a different form. And it’s just another job for me to complete- sort by colour, bag up, carry down three flights of stairs, put DC in car, try to manage DC while bringing several bags of laundry into service.

I am actually considering making a list so he can see in concrete form how much I do and how much of it is related to cleaning up his various spills and messes. Or a list of non negotiable tasks he has to complete on a daily/ weekly basis.

Get a laundry service that comes to your door. No expense spared.

Don’t bother writing him a list as he will just use it against you to say you are petty. I honestly think I wouldn’t even bother engaging with him for now. Save your energy.

Get all the help you can now, it will be less work with that help.

but use the extra help to help you regain energy and to give you time to strategise. If you are leaving him you need to get organised. As someone said, go to the divorce board to get practical help.

Completely normal especially if they sense some turbulence, and they usually do.

He has been in touch today from the office today with an apology for how he handled the conversation and for not doing enough and recognising that only contributing during AL is inadequate. I can’t understand why he couldn’t have just said that last night, he was so indifferent to my obvious distress.

Oh no...hes sucking you back in. I really hope he starts putting actions to those words. Honestly. I would love a happy ending for a change.

However be aware of the cycle of abuse. They keep piling the disrespect on, won't accept any of the blame, it's all your fault for having high standards, but he's tired wahwah until you break and say you can't do it any more.

Then it's he hears you, he' sorry, he will help more. Loads of promises.

You are appeased although slightly upset and unsettled at why he had to take it to the edge. You continue for a few weeks until you realise he's not helping anymore or giving excuse after excuse. You start bartering, reminding him of the promises, the discussion you had, trying different ways, and different times, to approach the subject. Because you bring it up again

He turns nasty, saying you are breaking the marriage, its you who is making the children homeless because of insert the rage snarl fucking hoovering 🙄

You either pipe down and accept it for a bit longer or you say enough.

The first will break you until you have no confidence, no control, nothing. You are worthless. The latter takes you back into the circle of abuse.

I took it for thirty years as I didn't see it. I'm now broken, ill, with no money. Your eyes have been opened. Please start reading up on abusive/uneven relationships and decide what you want your future to look like. Same as me or a happier life?

I will say this though. If you decide you've had enough don't do it until your maternity ends and you are back at work.

Use the money he is offering to pay for cleaners, gardeners etc while you heal from the pregnancy/birth. Use it to get the house perfect for selling. And if you still feel you can't cope then at least you will be in a better place physically, emotionally and mentally. Look after yourself. He won't.

This is very wise advise OP.

He's obviously confused in a friend at work and they've talked some sense into him. Hopefully he has an adjustment to his attitude now :)

Is he open to the idea of relationship counselling? I can see your point if his Mum has been facilitating him slacking off for years that's a factor. However, you should expect a bit more of an effort than a half arsed e-mail/phone call apology from the office after the fact.

I just wanted to say I’m sorry to hear of your ill health and financial worries. I hope your situation improves 💐

I wouldn’t think so tbh. Actually one thing that did resonate with him was saying I know his friends are doing their fair share at home and none of their wives have the workload I have. His friends (who are a lovely bunch) and their opinion of him are a considerable priority to him.

Can you take your toddler and go and stay at your parents for a bit. Tell him you need to think about whether you can carry on in a relationship where your needs are so minimised and he is gaslighting you into thinking you're a nag.

Or get him to go and stay with his mother if that isn't possible.

You need some time apart to think about how you go forward before no.2 is born.

If you go to your parents, if/when you go back, tell him the condition for you returning is that the house is spotless and spell out what that means

• everything put away
• all surfaces gleaming
• new loo rolls
• empty bins
• no washing anywhere
• etc

If you are feeling kind and as though it will be understood, I would also say

You are welcome to get a laundry service for your clothes. I will not be touching them. That means you have to bag them up, itemise them, take them to the service, collect them and put them away. I will not get involved.

Same with any other services.

The other suggestion I have is to collect all his stuff as he leaves it around, clothes, rubbish, empty pots and put it all in a bin bag on his side of the bed every day. He leaves a spill and you can't bear it - wipe it with kitchen roll and that goes in there too. His phone charger, his expensive ties, his shoes left by the door, all in there with the half empty crisp wrapper and the half drunk coffee. Just make sure there are no holes in the bin bag.

Honestly, change won't happen without a massive shock to his system. And once you've done it, you have to be brutal. You will never be able to help him out, just once, because it will become your responsibility again.

It is depressing and frustrating that you even have to have these conversations. I am not saying leave, but you do need to say how much easier it was when he wasn't there and how much you enjoyed your house when he didn't leave you an endless trail of stuff to tidy up.

Good luck OP, I really feel for you. My OH isn't great at a lot of things, but he does pull his weight around the house. It would be a deal breaker for me if he didn't.

Ok so his job going forward is sorting out and sending all the laundry to a laundry service and paying for it.

He will soon learn what a faff it is.

If his friends' opinions are so important to him - shame him in front of them. Whether that's leaving all his mess when you know they're coming round and say in front of them that you have put all of yours and DC's mess away, or whether it's asking them in front of him what do they do to share the load at home and - repeat loudly their comments "you empty the bins? I wish DH would do that! You don't expect your dirty socks to walk from beside the sofa into the washing machine, dry themselves and put themselves away? Fancy that! I guess you realised quicker than DH that the laundry fairy doesn't exist". Or just sad - "I hope DH is hearing how much you all love and respect your partners by sharing the load of running a house and family."

It is so horrible that you even have to think of doing something like this though.