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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

JSO prevent a mum taking her baby to hospital.

718 replies

TRexTara · 22/07/2023 12:38

I don't know what these people think they are achieving. I think the mum was in a cab which looks like an electric car anyway, they refuse to let her get past.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23127608/furious-mum-screams-baby-hospital-just-stop-oil/?utmcampaign=nativeeshare&utmsource=sharebarrnative&utmmedium=sharebarr_native

OP posts:
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43
MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:37

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:34

MillicentBystandr

See my above post. The CCC are clear. We are not doing enough, quickly enough.

I disagree, we are moving faster than almost everyone else on the planet. You keep repeating ‘advisors’ say ‘blah blah’ but who is saying this and on what basis?

PerfectYear321 · 23/07/2023 17:38

YABU for posting a link to the Sun

StefanosHill · 23/07/2023 17:39

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:36

Which advisors? And what exactly have they said?
Oh and we are leading the way with this stuff.

Give me graphs and facts any day over that quasi religious judgement day garble from JSO

I had no idea that’s what they pushed out

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:40

DdraigGoch

I was commenting on the posters I see on every thread with a climate change theme.

Im not a JSO activist but I am beyond fed up, having done years of campaigning and personal change, with the inaction by the public and Government. Even when it’s actually killing people already.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:40

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:28

“The UK has lost its clear global leadership position on climate action," it said. "We have backtracked on fossil fuel commitments, with the consenting of a new coal mine and support for new UK oil and gas production.”
The impact of climate change is already evident in Britain, which experienced record temperaturesover 40C (104F) last year.
“There is a worrying hesitancy by ministers to lead the country to the next stage of net zero commitments,” CCC Chairman John Gummer said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/britain-loses-status-global-climate-leader-advisers-say-2023-06-27/

So, that’s one person saying we are not #1 global leader in the world now. The CCC are not advisers to the U.K. Government btw.

The article you posted isn’t saying we are not doing enough in the slightest. It’s hard to stay #1 when we have done the shit storm that is Brexit to ourselves.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:41

MillicentBystandr · Today 17:37
LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · Today 17:34

MillicentBystandr

See my above post. The CCC are clear. We are not doing enough, quickly enough.
I disagree, we are moving faster than almost everyone else on the planet.

You keep repeating ‘advisors’ say ‘blah blah’ but who is saying this and on what basis?

As I said. The CCC. See the link and quote above.

DdraigGoch · 23/07/2023 17:41

Talking of Russians, the current war has already emitted 120 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. That figure is equivalent to more than a quarter of the UK's total emissions for the year, and that's on top of Russia's usual emissions which dwarf ours on any measure. So if they really want to make a difference (because it's clear that their current tactics aren't doing anything of any use) then perhaps they should start sabotaging Russian munitions factories.

Walking slowly down a street with a banner in hand achieves the square root of fuck all.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:43

DdraigGoch · 23/07/2023 17:41

Talking of Russians, the current war has already emitted 120 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. That figure is equivalent to more than a quarter of the UK's total emissions for the year, and that's on top of Russia's usual emissions which dwarf ours on any measure. So if they really want to make a difference (because it's clear that their current tactics aren't doing anything of any use) then perhaps they should start sabotaging Russian munitions factories.

Walking slowly down a street with a banner in hand achieves the square root of fuck all.

Excellent point.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:44

The CCC is publicly funded and this is their role;

About the Climate Change Committee
The Climate Change Committee (CCC) is an independent, statutory body established under the Climate Change Act 2008. Our purpose is to advise the UK and devolved governments on emissions targets and to report to Parliament on progress made in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and preparing for and adapting to the impacts of climate change.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:45

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:41

MillicentBystandr · Today 17:37
LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · Today 17:34

MillicentBystandr

See my above post. The CCC are clear. We are not doing enough, quickly enough.
I disagree, we are moving faster than almost everyone else on the planet.

You keep repeating ‘advisors’ say ‘blah blah’ but who is saying this and on what basis?

As I said. The CCC. See the link and quote above.

Yeah we cross posted. So that’s one person saying Britain isn’t the global leader anymore, they’re not saying what you claimed.

Any advisors saying we are not doing enough?

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 17:45

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:03

It’s both really. JSO lies and your posts indicate you think new oil licenses/exploration & drilling are a problem that will worsen climate change when they really aren’t and won’t. They haven’t done in the U.K. for thirty years…

JSO’s biggest lies are

  • the government has not only done nothing to combat climate change but has deliberately made things worse.
  • that we have to stop all new oil, gas and coal extraction now to avert climate disasters
  • that anyone who disagrees with them is guilty of genocide and they’ve compared us to Nazis

Every press release is lie after lie after lie:
We’re on course for collapse!” (Cutting emissions in half and a consistent downward trend is the opposite of being on course for collapse)

This government is knowingly taking action that will kill hundreds of millions of people and destroy my future. They have made it clear that they value the profits of the few over the lives of the many.” (the actions they are actually taking is to cut emissions and wean us off fossil fuels for energy production…that’s saving lives not risking lives)

Climate scientists are telling us the development of new oil, gas and coal projects will be beyond disastrous for humanity.” (No they’re really not. They’re saying not cutting CO2 and all GHG emissions will cause more disasters)

”I’ve been arrested today whilst standing against our government’s unbelievably corrupt and idiotic mishandling of the climate emergency” (see above, how is slashing CO2 and GHG emissions mishandling? It’s exactly what needs to be done)

Climate collapse is here, now, you just have to look at the front page of the news. That means every fraction of a degree of warming matters, every tonne of carbon is more deaths and lives ruined. Our government knows that. Every day we see new and terrifying headlines, giving us a glimpse of the unliveable future they are pushing us towards.” (The reality is that the government have successfully and in the long term fought to avert this future.)

Rishi Sunak and his government act like science-deniers even though they have access to the very latest climate science” (they really aren’t)

”“The giant hypocrisy is that the new oil and gas projects that the government has in the pipeline will cause migration like we’ve never seen before.” (No it won’t, it’s only to replace imports with domestic production and tap replacements for wells that are dry. Overall extraction and use will keep declining)

Their recent press release is total bullshitTens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of people will die in the current heat storms. Any government that refuses to put it’s country on a war footing that sees emissions slashed and an urgent programme of adaptation introduced is criminally negligent” (Good thing our government has been cutting emissions…so this cannot be referring to the U.K. But JSO wants you to think that our government has done nothing) “We are heading towards 3 to 4°C of warming across this century, an absolute climate catastrophe for all species including our own. And all we are doing so far is giving rhetoric and optimism and greenwash.” (yes, that’s all it takes to cut CO2 emissions by almost half, and get from 0% to 50% of energy produced by zero carbon sources…a bit of rhetoric and green washing. This totally ignores the facts.)“I thought fossil fuel firms could change. I was wrong.” (she’s still wrong, have you even looked up all the green technology and renewable sources that the fossil fuel firms have developed? As one example, Shell invented and is flying carbon zero aeroplanes.)

The facts are clear. New oil and gas licensing in 2023 will kill hundreds of millions of people, adding to the already mounting global death toll from climate breakdown. It will push our climate, oceans and the living world beyond the point of no return, triggering runaway global heating and setting in motion an unstoppable process of global societal collapse. To know these facts and still encourage drilling for UK new oil and gas is reckless and immoral. There can be no greater crime. (Bullshit)

Since the declaration of a climate and environmental emergency by the British Parliament, in 2019, it has become obvious that our politicians and corporations have no intention of acting in accordance with the fundamental interests of either our young people or the country as a whole. (Bullshit, because as you know they’ve been cutting emissions and GHGs)

Whether those in charge realise that they are engaging in genocide, is not the question. For this is how it will be seen by the next generation and all future generations. Adolf Eichmann, the Nazi, at his trial in Jerusalem, sought to defend himself by saying that he never killed any Jews as he was only in charge of transporting them to the death camps. The judges overruled this obscene defence and he was hanged. (you’re a Nazi if you don’t join us)

Similarly, when those in charge today go to court in the coming years, they will claim that they only facilitated the continued use of fossil fuels. They never actually killed the starving poor of Sudan and Pakistan. And likewise the judgement will be the same – you knew what you were doing and you did not stop it. Justice will be done. (Proverbial hanging or literal? These guys are already unhinged)

To this end, from this moment forward, Just Stop Oil, working closely with lawyers, will publicly gather evidence against fossil fuel executives, bankers, ministers and officials and members of the legal and media professions who order, administrate or facilitate the exploitation of new oil and gas resources or who conspire to prosecute those taking action to prevent the greatest act of mass murder in human history. (we are making a list…)

We say to all these people, consider carefully your responsibilities to yourself, your family and the country. This is not a game. This is not a campaign for one small policy change. It is not just another protest. It is resistance against evil.
Face facts before it is too late. (Little frission of terrorising the public here)

Finally some quotes that you believe are lies, but stop assuming that I'm against this or that - I've put up the reasons that JSO are protesting - JSO object to the 100 licences issue by the government, object to the money spent on oil exploration which is £80bn, £20bn more than renewables.

TBH I find it hard to swallow that anyone would be in favour of oil companies obtained £20bn more than renewables - that you can quote me on. It doesn't make sense to me when we should be investing in renewables and oil would still have received £60bn

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:46

MillicentBystandr

Rishi?

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:46

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:44

The CCC is publicly funded and this is their role;

About the Climate Change Committee
The Climate Change Committee (CCC) is an independent, statutory body established under the Climate Change Act 2008. Our purpose is to advise the UK and devolved governments on emissions targets and to report to Parliament on progress made in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and preparing for and adapting to the impacts of climate change.

Sorry, I confused them with the IPCC (climate change panel) which is an independent international body and so less prone to saying stuff for political gain than a domestic arm of our own government.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:49

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 17:45

Finally some quotes that you believe are lies, but stop assuming that I'm against this or that - I've put up the reasons that JSO are protesting - JSO object to the 100 licences issue by the government, object to the money spent on oil exploration which is £80bn, £20bn more than renewables.

TBH I find it hard to swallow that anyone would be in favour of oil companies obtained £20bn more than renewables - that you can quote me on. It doesn't make sense to me when we should be investing in renewables and oil would still have received £60bn

Renewables are FAR cheaper so £60bn goes so objectively it is a higher investment in terms of energy return than £80bn towards oil,gas, etc.

StefanosHill · 23/07/2023 17:49

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:46

MillicentBystandr

Rishi?

If you are JSO lead?

Bit silly these types of posts

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:49

OK. So the CCC that is a publicly funded advisory group, whose job is to advise the Government on its climate policy said;

‘But strategies in place are unlikely to deliver the required emission cuts and last year’s announcements on new fossil fuel projects have tarnished Britain's reputation as a climate leader, an annual progress report by the Climate Change Committee (CCC) said on Wednesday.’ June 2023

DdraigGoch · 23/07/2023 17:51

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:40

DdraigGoch

I was commenting on the posters I see on every thread with a climate change theme.

Im not a JSO activist but I am beyond fed up, having done years of campaigning and personal change, with the inaction by the public and Government. Even when it’s actually killing people already.

I'm afraid that I just see a continued effort to distract from the worst emitters in the world. If a celebrity uses a private jet to lecture us on the environment then I do reserve the right to tell them to "fuck off".

I don't expect environmental campaigners to lead a monk's life, and I accept that people can repent for past sins, but I draw the line at the ones who unapologetically demonstrate some of the worst excesses of western consumerism.

I also refuse to ignore that the per capita consumption-based emissions of the PRC now exceed ours. It shouldn't be used as an excuse for inaction on our part (as per some posters), but it is still something which should be called out.

The UK has done, and is doing a lot to reduce its emissions - both per capita and in total. It's high time that certain countries pulled their weight too, be they China, Russia, or the US.

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 17:52

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:49

Renewables are FAR cheaper so £60bn goes so objectively it is a higher investment in terms of energy return than £80bn towards oil,gas, etc.

This is for investment and support, so whether its cheaper or less expensive shouldn't be a factor

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:54

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:49

OK. So the CCC that is a publicly funded advisory group, whose job is to advise the Government on its climate policy said;

‘But strategies in place are unlikely to deliver the required emission cuts and last year’s announcements on new fossil fuel projects have tarnished Britain's reputation as a climate leader, an annual progress report by the Climate Change Committee (CCC) said on Wednesday.’ June 2023

Well, now you are quoting them out of context, that “unlikely to deliver the required emissions cuts” is referring directly to our self imposed goal of net zero by 2050.

Which by the way, whether we meet it or not, it will have zero impact on climate change globally as our contribution to global CO2 emissions is less than 1%.

So the ‘required emission cuts’ are not the cuts required to avert climate disaster…they are the cuts required to reach an ambitious goal we set for ourselves, that even if we do not meet it we have still done far more than over 95% of the rest of the planet.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:55

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 17:52

This is for investment and support, so whether its cheaper or less expensive shouldn't be a factor

What? Of course the cost of investment, operations and maintenance is a factor driving how much money renewables NEEDS or does not need!

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:56

The UK has done, and is doing a lot to reduce its emissions - both per capita and in total. It's high time that certain countries pulled their weight too, be they China, Russia, or the US.

Yes, yes yes! We have done and are doing our bit. If there is to be any calling out a la JSO it shouldn’t be directed inwards, but outwards to those who are not doing their bit.

bellac11 · 23/07/2023 17:57

Havent read the full thread, its domestic terrorism and should be dealt with as such

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 18:00

https://www.theccc.org.uk/2021/09/08/uk-climate-risk-state-of-the-nation-webinar-series/

Here you go. If you look at these you will see the words

‘However, despite over 3,000 pages of new detail, the Climate Change Committee’s confidence in the UK meeting its goals from 2030 onwards is now markedly less than it was in our previous assessment a year ago. A key opportunity to push a faster pace of progress has been missed.’

‘Time is now very short to achieve this change of pace. Glimmers of the Net Zero transition can be seen in growing sales of new electric cars and the continued deployment of renewable capacity, but the scale up of action overall is worryingly slow.’

‘The Government continues to place their reliance on technological solutions that have not been deployed at scale, in preference to more straightforward encouragement of people to reduce high-carbon activities. The Committee has again flagged the risks of a policy programme that amongst other things is too slow to plant trees and roll-out heat pumps.’

‘Yet, there has been little progress in addressing the increasing risks from overheating in our houses, health and care facilities, schools and prisons.’

‘the assessment found that current adaptation measures are inadequate to match the scale of key risks to the natural environment, including risks to terrestrial and freshwater species and habitats, soils, and natural carbon stores and sequestration.’

‘Despite this, and despite the attempts from private finance to help achieve Net Zero and diversify portfolios, there are still barriers to making public and private finance available for adaptation.’

‘Out of 15 relevant major UK Government announcements linked to addressing climate change made over the past three years, only four have included integrated plans and goals on adapting to climate change alongside goals and plans for reducing emissions.’

UK Climate Risk - State of the Nation webinar series - Climate Change Committee

The UK Climate Risk – State of the Nation series delves into the Independent Assessment of UK Climate…

https://www.theccc.org.uk/2021/09/08/uk-climate-risk-state-of-the-nation-webinar-series/

StefanosHill · 23/07/2023 18:00

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:49

OK. So the CCC that is a publicly funded advisory group, whose job is to advise the Government on its climate policy said;

‘But strategies in place are unlikely to deliver the required emission cuts and last year’s announcements on new fossil fuel projects have tarnished Britain's reputation as a climate leader, an annual progress report by the Climate Change Committee (CCC) said on Wednesday.’ June 2023

But the facts show we are leading, all those posts below.

‘Tarnished’ really?

Why do these statements sound so non factual and loaded. I get it’s their job and reason for existing but as pp said we have our house in order

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 18:02

We do not have our house in order!! Bullshit. We are investing in and subsidising new oil. We are not investing in renewables nearly as much. We are not insulating our homes. We are not collectively reducing our consumption. We are one of the worlds highest carbon emitters when you consider us globally.