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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

JSO prevent a mum taking her baby to hospital.

718 replies

TRexTara · 22/07/2023 12:38

I don't know what these people think they are achieving. I think the mum was in a cab which looks like an electric car anyway, they refuse to let her get past.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23127608/furious-mum-screams-baby-hospital-just-stop-oil/?utmcampaign=nativeeshare&utmsource=sharebarrnative&utmmedium=sharebarr_native

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
WildUnchartedWaters · 23/07/2023 14:52

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 14:42

I despair. The is no hope. We are so hell bent on protecting our privileged lifestyle, we are clinging to every possible dubious argument not to change. I always thought that humans would eventually see that they had to change. Only when the last tree…

It's not us clinging on dubious arguments. Perhaps you could read the 3 pages of arguing over whether or not the women said her baby was ill.

Fwiw, Id be too embarrassed to post that I support terrorism, but each to their own.

WildUnchartedWaters · 23/07/2023 14:53

eatdrinkandbemerry · 23/07/2023 14:47

I'd have knocked the guy clean out and faced the consequences once my child had received medical attention 🤷‍♀️

Snap. Someone else will be along to tell you that's IlLegaL

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 23/07/2023 14:53

Wanderingowl · 23/07/2023 14:05

Decades of global scientific research, using multiple models, shows without a doubt, that we are causing global warming.

It really, really, really doesn't. I'm not a climate change denier, in fact I have a 30 year history of serious environmental activism. But in the last few years I've actually started to read the scientific papers and the surveys of scientists and have realised that we are constantly been shown the absolute worst case scenario, taken from poorly gathered data, as if it was a sure thing. We are constantly being told that there is scientific consensus, when no such consensus exists.

The main actual consensus is that we have nowhere near enough accurate data or time spent on climatology to have any genuine clue what effect human activity is having on the global climate. It's a field of science in it's very real infancy and we are not a point where we can make anything close to accurate predictions. Any scientist claiming to know for a fact what is happening, is bullshitting. All that exist are theories, early theories, not even true scientific theories. Because, far, far, far too much is still unknown.

It doesn't mean that we aren't causing damage to the environment. Because we are and a lot of changes in the technologies we use need to be made. We are an extremely polluting species and that has very real consequences. We have to get better and until we do, people and other living things will suffer the consequences. But, by focussing on the unknown as if we actually know. By lying about things we can't possibly know. What happens is that we ignore real issues due to looking at a 'bigger picture' that possibly doesn't exist.

Can you post some links to the papers/books/surveys you've read?

That's not meant to be arsey btw, I'm genuinely interested and have read things like the Bray and von Storch survey, which tend to show a lower portion of consensus, but always good to have more things to read.

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 14:54

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 14:43

BordoisAgain · Today 14:07
Yep, as I said in my post, when they start protesting the people and institutions who actually have the clout to make the changes they want then I might start believing they actually want change instead of their own smug self satisfying virtue signalling.

This has been happening for decades. Decades!! It’s time for civil unrest. I’m not part of JSO but I understand their position 100%.

Civil unrest 🤣

Fucks sake Rik.

WildUnchartedWaters · 23/07/2023 14:58

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 14:54

Civil unrest 🤣

Fucks sake Rik.

@LittleApartmentOnThePrairie why arent you joining them then?

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 15:27

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 12:54

No, I’m going by the CO2 and other greenhouse emissions data gathered abd published by REAL climate scientists for the past fifty years.

The £20bn in investment to oil companies isn’t investing in burning more oil or generating CO2 emissions because those have been cut by almost half down to 1850 levels.

As I said upthread as an example we need millions of barrels of oil just to run our wind farms. We don’t burn all the fossil fuels, we process them into lubricants and materials necessary for the operation of carbon neutral energy generation. We also need oil for the production of all medicinal ointments and lotions. It’s huge in the cosmetic industry as well. Oil is also needed to manufacture fertiliser so we can grow enough crops on less land to feed the population.

That’s what JSO and you do not get, that drilling for oil and having oil doesn’t mean it’s all going to be burned to generate electricity or for petrol in cars creating CO2.

I don’t think the 100 licenses is a lie, it’s just not the massive problem you think it is as oil licenses and oil doesn’t automatically mean more CO2 emissions. And the facts and data show that CO2 emissions in the U.K. have been reduced faster here than by everyone else in the entire world except for two other smaller countries.

You stated it was lies from JSO now you’re changing that to, it’s not the problem you think it is

Which part are JSO lying about?

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 15:58

WildUnchartedWaters

Sorry - I was more posting about the incessant arguments on these threads about climate change. The ‘what about’… and then a list of spurious arguments about why not to change. ‘The rich’ ‘China’ ‘carbon impact of batteries’ etc. I’m just tired of it. We know what to do.

  1. reduce consumption
  2. insulate
  3. invest in renewables heavily
  4. invest in infrastructure to adapt

But we want our bacon butties, our five minute convenient car trips to pick up a take away, our weekends to Prague, our cheap t-shirt etc etc. I’m just tired of a few of us making big changes whilst others just bury their head or just don’t give a shit.

WildUnchartedWaters · 23/07/2023 16:10

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 15:58

WildUnchartedWaters

Sorry - I was more posting about the incessant arguments on these threads about climate change. The ‘what about’… and then a list of spurious arguments about why not to change. ‘The rich’ ‘China’ ‘carbon impact of batteries’ etc. I’m just tired of it. We know what to do.

  1. reduce consumption
  2. insulate
  3. invest in renewables heavily
  4. invest in infrastructure to adapt

But we want our bacon butties, our five minute convenient car trips to pick up a take away, our weekends to Prague, our cheap t-shirt etc etc. I’m just tired of a few of us making big changes whilst others just bury their head or just don’t give a shit.

I dont disagree, but that's a separate argument. Anyone with your values shouldnt support these idiots either because what they are doing is pushing everyone away from your cause

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 16:38

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 15:58

WildUnchartedWaters

Sorry - I was more posting about the incessant arguments on these threads about climate change. The ‘what about’… and then a list of spurious arguments about why not to change. ‘The rich’ ‘China’ ‘carbon impact of batteries’ etc. I’m just tired of it. We know what to do.

  1. reduce consumption
  2. insulate
  3. invest in renewables heavily
  4. invest in infrastructure to adapt

But we want our bacon butties, our five minute convenient car trips to pick up a take away, our weekends to Prague, our cheap t-shirt etc etc. I’m just tired of a few of us making big changes whilst others just bury their head or just don’t give a shit.

How does deliberately increasing the amount of pollution and C02 emissions help with any of this?

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 16:40

WildUnchartedWaters · 23/07/2023 16:10

I dont disagree, but that's a separate argument. Anyone with your values shouldnt support these idiots either because what they are doing is pushing everyone away from your cause

Absolutely.

Changes are needed.

JSO are not doing anything useful to bring about change.

Most people are actually creating less pollution and C02 emissions than the JSO clowns.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:03

ivykaty44 · 23/07/2023 15:27

You stated it was lies from JSO now you’re changing that to, it’s not the problem you think it is

Which part are JSO lying about?

It’s both really. JSO lies and your posts indicate you think new oil licenses/exploration & drilling are a problem that will worsen climate change when they really aren’t and won’t. They haven’t done in the U.K. for thirty years…

JSO’s biggest lies are

  • the government has not only done nothing to combat climate change but has deliberately made things worse.
  • that we have to stop all new oil, gas and coal extraction now to avert climate disasters
  • that anyone who disagrees with them is guilty of genocide and they’ve compared us to Nazis

Every press release is lie after lie after lie:
We’re on course for collapse!” (Cutting emissions in half and a consistent downward trend is the opposite of being on course for collapse)

This government is knowingly taking action that will kill hundreds of millions of people and destroy my future. They have made it clear that they value the profits of the few over the lives of the many.” (the actions they are actually taking is to cut emissions and wean us off fossil fuels for energy production…that’s saving lives not risking lives)

Climate scientists are telling us the development of new oil, gas and coal projects will be beyond disastrous for humanity.” (No they’re really not. They’re saying not cutting CO2 and all GHG emissions will cause more disasters)

”I’ve been arrested today whilst standing against our government’s unbelievably corrupt and idiotic mishandling of the climate emergency” (see above, how is slashing CO2 and GHG emissions mishandling? It’s exactly what needs to be done)

Climate collapse is here, now, you just have to look at the front page of the news. That means every fraction of a degree of warming matters, every tonne of carbon is more deaths and lives ruined. Our government knows that. Every day we see new and terrifying headlines, giving us a glimpse of the unliveable future they are pushing us towards.” (The reality is that the government have successfully and in the long term fought to avert this future.)

Rishi Sunak and his government act like science-deniers even though they have access to the very latest climate science” (they really aren’t)

”“The giant hypocrisy is that the new oil and gas projects that the government has in the pipeline will cause migration like we’ve never seen before.” (No it won’t, it’s only to replace imports with domestic production and tap replacements for wells that are dry. Overall extraction and use will keep declining)

Their recent press release is total bullshitTens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of people will die in the current heat storms. Any government that refuses to put it’s country on a war footing that sees emissions slashed and an urgent programme of adaptation introduced is criminally negligent” (Good thing our government has been cutting emissions…so this cannot be referring to the U.K. But JSO wants you to think that our government has done nothing) “We are heading towards 3 to 4°C of warming across this century, an absolute climate catastrophe for all species including our own. And all we are doing so far is giving rhetoric and optimism and greenwash.” (yes, that’s all it takes to cut CO2 emissions by almost half, and get from 0% to 50% of energy produced by zero carbon sources…a bit of rhetoric and green washing. This totally ignores the facts.)“I thought fossil fuel firms could change. I was wrong.” (she’s still wrong, have you even looked up all the green technology and renewable sources that the fossil fuel firms have developed? As one example, Shell invented and is flying carbon zero aeroplanes.)

The facts are clear. New oil and gas licensing in 2023 will kill hundreds of millions of people, adding to the already mounting global death toll from climate breakdown. It will push our climate, oceans and the living world beyond the point of no return, triggering runaway global heating and setting in motion an unstoppable process of global societal collapse. To know these facts and still encourage drilling for UK new oil and gas is reckless and immoral. There can be no greater crime. (Bullshit)

Since the declaration of a climate and environmental emergency by the British Parliament, in 2019, it has become obvious that our politicians and corporations have no intention of acting in accordance with the fundamental interests of either our young people or the country as a whole. (Bullshit, because as you know they’ve been cutting emissions and GHGs)

Whether those in charge realise that they are engaging in genocide, is not the question. For this is how it will be seen by the next generation and all future generations. Adolf Eichmann, the Nazi, at his trial in Jerusalem, sought to defend himself by saying that he never killed any Jews as he was only in charge of transporting them to the death camps. The judges overruled this obscene defence and he was hanged. (you’re a Nazi if you don’t join us)

Similarly, when those in charge today go to court in the coming years, they will claim that they only facilitated the continued use of fossil fuels. They never actually killed the starving poor of Sudan and Pakistan. And likewise the judgement will be the same – you knew what you were doing and you did not stop it. Justice will be done. (Proverbial hanging or literal? These guys are already unhinged)

To this end, from this moment forward, Just Stop Oil, working closely with lawyers, will publicly gather evidence against fossil fuel executives, bankers, ministers and officials and members of the legal and media professions who order, administrate or facilitate the exploitation of new oil and gas resources or who conspire to prosecute those taking action to prevent the greatest act of mass murder in human history. (we are making a list…)

We say to all these people, consider carefully your responsibilities to yourself, your family and the country. This is not a game. This is not a campaign for one small policy change. It is not just another protest. It is resistance against evil.
Face facts before it is too late. (Little frission of terrorising the public here)

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:07

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 15:58

WildUnchartedWaters

Sorry - I was more posting about the incessant arguments on these threads about climate change. The ‘what about’… and then a list of spurious arguments about why not to change. ‘The rich’ ‘China’ ‘carbon impact of batteries’ etc. I’m just tired of it. We know what to do.

  1. reduce consumption
  2. insulate
  3. invest in renewables heavily
  4. invest in infrastructure to adapt

But we want our bacon butties, our five minute convenient car trips to pick up a take away, our weekends to Prague, our cheap t-shirt etc etc. I’m just tired of a few of us making big changes whilst others just bury their head or just don’t give a shit.

FFS! We have been doing your list and changing since 1990. We just need to stay on course.

It’s getting really frustrating at how pervasive and insidious the propaganda of these eco-fascists has become.

The entire U.K. has made big changes. Our CO2 per capital is 1/3rd that of North America (USA and Canada) despite a similar rich lifestyle. We are #1 in all Europe for having cut our CO2 emissions.

StefanosHill · 23/07/2023 17:13

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:03

It’s both really. JSO lies and your posts indicate you think new oil licenses/exploration & drilling are a problem that will worsen climate change when they really aren’t and won’t. They haven’t done in the U.K. for thirty years…

JSO’s biggest lies are

  • the government has not only done nothing to combat climate change but has deliberately made things worse.
  • that we have to stop all new oil, gas and coal extraction now to avert climate disasters
  • that anyone who disagrees with them is guilty of genocide and they’ve compared us to Nazis

Every press release is lie after lie after lie:
We’re on course for collapse!” (Cutting emissions in half and a consistent downward trend is the opposite of being on course for collapse)

This government is knowingly taking action that will kill hundreds of millions of people and destroy my future. They have made it clear that they value the profits of the few over the lives of the many.” (the actions they are actually taking is to cut emissions and wean us off fossil fuels for energy production…that’s saving lives not risking lives)

Climate scientists are telling us the development of new oil, gas and coal projects will be beyond disastrous for humanity.” (No they’re really not. They’re saying not cutting CO2 and all GHG emissions will cause more disasters)

”I’ve been arrested today whilst standing against our government’s unbelievably corrupt and idiotic mishandling of the climate emergency” (see above, how is slashing CO2 and GHG emissions mishandling? It’s exactly what needs to be done)

Climate collapse is here, now, you just have to look at the front page of the news. That means every fraction of a degree of warming matters, every tonne of carbon is more deaths and lives ruined. Our government knows that. Every day we see new and terrifying headlines, giving us a glimpse of the unliveable future they are pushing us towards.” (The reality is that the government have successfully and in the long term fought to avert this future.)

Rishi Sunak and his government act like science-deniers even though they have access to the very latest climate science” (they really aren’t)

”“The giant hypocrisy is that the new oil and gas projects that the government has in the pipeline will cause migration like we’ve never seen before.” (No it won’t, it’s only to replace imports with domestic production and tap replacements for wells that are dry. Overall extraction and use will keep declining)

Their recent press release is total bullshitTens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of people will die in the current heat storms. Any government that refuses to put it’s country on a war footing that sees emissions slashed and an urgent programme of adaptation introduced is criminally negligent” (Good thing our government has been cutting emissions…so this cannot be referring to the U.K. But JSO wants you to think that our government has done nothing) “We are heading towards 3 to 4°C of warming across this century, an absolute climate catastrophe for all species including our own. And all we are doing so far is giving rhetoric and optimism and greenwash.” (yes, that’s all it takes to cut CO2 emissions by almost half, and get from 0% to 50% of energy produced by zero carbon sources…a bit of rhetoric and green washing. This totally ignores the facts.)“I thought fossil fuel firms could change. I was wrong.” (she’s still wrong, have you even looked up all the green technology and renewable sources that the fossil fuel firms have developed? As one example, Shell invented and is flying carbon zero aeroplanes.)

The facts are clear. New oil and gas licensing in 2023 will kill hundreds of millions of people, adding to the already mounting global death toll from climate breakdown. It will push our climate, oceans and the living world beyond the point of no return, triggering runaway global heating and setting in motion an unstoppable process of global societal collapse. To know these facts and still encourage drilling for UK new oil and gas is reckless and immoral. There can be no greater crime. (Bullshit)

Since the declaration of a climate and environmental emergency by the British Parliament, in 2019, it has become obvious that our politicians and corporations have no intention of acting in accordance with the fundamental interests of either our young people or the country as a whole. (Bullshit, because as you know they’ve been cutting emissions and GHGs)

Whether those in charge realise that they are engaging in genocide, is not the question. For this is how it will be seen by the next generation and all future generations. Adolf Eichmann, the Nazi, at his trial in Jerusalem, sought to defend himself by saying that he never killed any Jews as he was only in charge of transporting them to the death camps. The judges overruled this obscene defence and he was hanged. (you’re a Nazi if you don’t join us)

Similarly, when those in charge today go to court in the coming years, they will claim that they only facilitated the continued use of fossil fuels. They never actually killed the starving poor of Sudan and Pakistan. And likewise the judgement will be the same – you knew what you were doing and you did not stop it. Justice will be done. (Proverbial hanging or literal? These guys are already unhinged)

To this end, from this moment forward, Just Stop Oil, working closely with lawyers, will publicly gather evidence against fossil fuel executives, bankers, ministers and officials and members of the legal and media professions who order, administrate or facilitate the exploitation of new oil and gas resources or who conspire to prosecute those taking action to prevent the greatest act of mass murder in human history. (we are making a list…)

We say to all these people, consider carefully your responsibilities to yourself, your family and the country. This is not a game. This is not a campaign for one small policy change. It is not just another protest. It is resistance against evil.
Face facts before it is too late. (Little frission of terrorising the public here)

I’ve skimmed these press releases as they are a garbled religious sounding mess

But this

And likewise the judgement will be the same – you knew what you were doing and you did not stop it. Justice will be done.

(Proverbial hanging or literal? These guys are already unhinged)

Blinking heck. No wonder they do that zoned out walk

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:15

It’s tempting to wish that for every boat of refugees that arrives, we should send a boat of JSO protesters to the countries that are not cutting their CO2 emissions.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:17

StefanosHill · 23/07/2023 17:13

I’ve skimmed these press releases as they are a garbled religious sounding mess

But this

And likewise the judgement will be the same – you knew what you were doing and you did not stop it. Justice will be done.

(Proverbial hanging or literal? These guys are already unhinged)

Blinking heck. No wonder they do that zoned out walk

It’s very cult-like. I listen to them on the news. All they can do is repeat some of these same voice bites verbatim. They cannot discuss climate change or CO2 emissions with any clarity and seem totally unaware of the real data.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:17

WildUnchartedWaters

It’s not a ‘cause’. This is not a dog rescue centre or petitioning to keep the local library open. It’s the security and safety of the entire human race. If we are swayed away from doing something about that by a few people who are resorting to these tactics in desperation, then that seems utterly ridiculous.

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 17:18

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:17

It’s very cult-like. I listen to them on the news. All they can do is repeat some of these same voice bites verbatim. They cannot discuss climate change or CO2 emissions with any clarity and seem totally unaware of the real data.

I superglued my hand to a frame of a painting so Im doing my bit.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:23

MillicentBystandr

Where is the evidence of the government putting incentives in for us to reduce consumption? Which policy is this?

How is the government encouraging the building of houses that require the tiniest amount of energy? Insulating houses?

What policies are in place to incentivise, subsidise and encourage renewables?

What is the Government doing to invest in adaptation?

Rishi, when asked about green policy said he looks to his children. Said some garbage about recycling, switching off light switches and hoping technology saves us. He uses private jets to shave minutes off a journey. Has a heated pool. Etc.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:23

BordoisAgain · 23/07/2023 17:18

I superglued my hand to a frame of a painting so Im doing my bit.

😂

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:25

MillicentBystandr

Try he Government’s own advisers say they are not doing enough. We should and could be leading the way with this stuff.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:28

“The UK has lost its clear global leadership position on climate action," it said. "We have backtracked on fossil fuel commitments, with the consenting of a new coal mine and support for new UK oil and gas production.”
The impact of climate change is already evident in Britain, which experienced record temperaturesover 40C (104F) last year.
“There is a worrying hesitancy by ministers to lead the country to the next stage of net zero commitments,” CCC Chairman John Gummer said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/britain-loses-status-global-climate-leader-advisers-say-2023-06-27/

A fire burns during a heatwave, in Rainham, east London, Britain, July 19, 2022. REUTERS/Tony O'Brien

Britain swelters on its hottest day ever as temperatures hit 40C

Britain recorded its hottest day ever on Tuesday, with the temperature exceeding 40C (104F) as a heatwave gripping Europe intensified, forcing train tracks to buckle and fuelling a spate of fires across London.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/after-warmest-night-britain-braces-record-temperature-2022-07-19/

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:31

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:23

MillicentBystandr

Where is the evidence of the government putting incentives in for us to reduce consumption? Which policy is this?

How is the government encouraging the building of houses that require the tiniest amount of energy? Insulating houses?

What policies are in place to incentivise, subsidise and encourage renewables?

What is the Government doing to invest in adaptation?

Rishi, when asked about green policy said he looks to his children. Said some garbage about recycling, switching off light switches and hoping technology saves us. He uses private jets to shave minutes off a journey. Has a heated pool. Etc.

Right, well there are literally decades of policies and documents, with millions of pages of evidence. It’s easy to sea lion and say “where is evidence for…” but impossible to even post a fraction of a % of it.

And frankly, what is the point of evidence of intent to reduce consumption, when we have thirty years of data showing we have reduced consumption significantly both overall and on a per capita (per person) basis? And that the trend line keeps going down?

It’s obvious that these reductions could not have happened without government intent, policies, and action.

JSO prevent a mum taking her baby to hospital.
JSO prevent a mum taking her baby to hospital.
DdraigGoch · 23/07/2023 17:33

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 15:58

WildUnchartedWaters

Sorry - I was more posting about the incessant arguments on these threads about climate change. The ‘what about’… and then a list of spurious arguments about why not to change. ‘The rich’ ‘China’ ‘carbon impact of batteries’ etc. I’m just tired of it. We know what to do.

  1. reduce consumption
  2. insulate
  3. invest in renewables heavily
  4. invest in infrastructure to adapt

But we want our bacon butties, our five minute convenient car trips to pick up a take away, our weekends to Prague, our cheap t-shirt etc etc. I’m just tired of a few of us making big changes whilst others just bury their head or just don’t give a shit.

I don't own a car, I haven't flown in years, I only buy clothes when I really need to. So I'm pretty certain that I'm not the problem.

So if I lived in London and found my journey (whether bike, public transport, or if taking a newborn to hospital I may well use a taxi) obstructed I believe that I would be justified in questioning why I was the one being targeted while Roman Abramovich emits as much as a small town.

By all means, go and glue yourself to Abramovich's super yacht. I'll even pay for the glue. But stop harassing ordinary people who are not the problem and do not have the power to change things.

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:34

MillicentBystandr

See my above post. The CCC are clear. We are not doing enough, quickly enough.

MillicentBystandr · 23/07/2023 17:36

LittleApartmentOnThePrairie · 23/07/2023 17:25

MillicentBystandr

Try he Government’s own advisers say they are not doing enough. We should and could be leading the way with this stuff.

Which advisors? And what exactly have they said?
Oh and we are leading the way with this stuff.

JSO prevent a mum taking her baby to hospital.