Why use gender when you mean Sex ?

[Parsley1234]

Why do people ask the gender of their baby or have gender reveal parties ? The correct question is what sex is my baby or maybe I’m just getting totally fed up of woke nonsense.

I also find it amusing that many people have gender reveal parties, disclose the gender (well .... sex!) of their baby in a birth announcement and then tell us gender doesn't matter.

So in fact no-one has said "I don't care about women being abused".

Posters have said that it's only on MN where people care about sex vs gender.

Not quite the same thing, is it now.

It's rather ridiculous to say that people have proudly said on here that they don't care about women being abused. You'll hurt your back reaching like that.

@Dotjones love the term cunt doctor!

This might be a timely opportunity to link to this thread:

Teachers for Evidence-Based Education and Lesbian Alliance have each written about teaching sex & gender in schools | Mumsnet

Dismissing caring about the conflation of gender and sex is completely analogous.

It’s like saying I don’t see colour re racism.

I'm with you here! I dont care either, why do we need to care?

Cunt doctor has given me a proper giggle 🤣

In answer to the OP... I didn't have a gender reveal party but I would have called it a gender reveal party if I did, because that's the word people generally because 99% of people think of gender and sex as the same thing.

And in my case it is the same thing. My baby has a vagina. She will be raised as a girl, using female pronouns, because she has a vagina. Society will treat her as a girl/woman because she has a vagina. I don't see the point in separating sex and gender unless you're saying that your baby's sex is X but you are waiting for the baby themselves to decide their gender or whatever else.

Because it's an American import and they use gender

It's not analogous at all.

It's deliberate smearing of other posters by lying about what they said.

It’s exactly the same.
I don’t see colour= I’m denying the effects of racism.
I don’t care about the conflation of sex and gender= I’m denying the effects of that confusion.

I don’t care what you think by the way. For whatever reason you dismiss it as an issue 💁🏻‍♀️
Enough people do care and point it out. I listed the reasons you might be affected one day, but I don’t wish you’re in those situations or see it as my job to educate you. This little spat is boring.

It took decades for people to properly realise that when they say they don't see colour they are enabling racism. It may also take time for people to realise that when they say they don't care about the muddling of the words sex and gender they are enabling the abuse of women.

If it's so boring then why respond?

And if you'd bothered to read the context before inserting yourself into it, you'd realise I'm not actually one of the posters who said "people only care about sex vs gender on MN" in the first place.

No matter how many times someone explains the difference between certain words or how many times I look it up - there are some words my brain maintains are synonyms. It took me a ridiculously long time to cement the difference between sex and gender, and I never tend to notice when people use them incorrectly cause my brain is still pretty much convinced that they're synonyms (even though I do know better).

I have loads of words like that. English language isn't everyone's strongest skill.

🤷

Sex and gender have been synonymous for centuries. It is only the way the use of gender has changed in the last decade or two that has caused this.

Your issue should be with the people who have changed the meaning of the word, not those who use it as it always has been used.

For me a trans man will never be a woman no matter how much I'm told that. They are a man living and dressing as a woman and that's as far as it will go in my eyes.
Surely everyone's view needs to be respected. It's not a fact.

Because until recently your sex was the same as your gender and it wasn't really necessary on a day to day level to differentiate. If you had a willy you went in the men's toilets, if you flashed that willy in swimming pool changing room in front of young girls you got arrested, and if you used it to rape someone you went to a mens prison. But now all the be kind brigade who think there are 945.3 genders are getting they/themselves all confused it really has become necessary to start doing things by sex rather than gender.

Same. Thank God they weren't really a thing 22 years ago when I had my twins & when my friends were pregnant.

In which case, 'People' would be entirely wrong.

There are extensive networks both on and offline responding to the insidious land-grab of women's rights. Fair Play for Women, the Women's Rights Network, Standing For Women, Sex Matters, For Women Scotland, and Fair Cop, to name just the ones that come immediately to mind.

The story as to how Fair Cop came about is interesting in itself. Its co-founder is a barrister who, back in 2020, was at the receiving end of an anonymous tweet boasting that she now had a “record for life” as the result of allegedly hateful tweets. The tweets were along the lines of denying that transwomen are biological women and referring to male sex offenders housed in the female prison estate as “men”. She contacted the police who confirmed that 12 pages of tweets had been recorded as transphobic and religiously aggravated “non-crime hate incidents”.

She was on a police shit list without ever having committed a criminal offence. Conviction without trial, in a supposed democracy is beyond sinister. She fought it, crowd funded it, and Fair Cop came about. This is psychological abuse. This is criminalizing any opposition to gender ideology. It's throwing women's rights directly under the bus, which other women for some unaccountable reason seem happy to be complicit in doing.

Sex matters. A deliberate obfuscation of the boundary between sex and gender is what has allowed these situations to arise. Because 'it doesn't harm us'. Because 'Be Kind'.

All of the above does harm. It's no accident that the current social contagion of gender ideology amongst young people happened directly after an explosion of pinkification, pastels and glitter in the girls' aisles of Toys R Us et al from around the mid 1990s onward. The rigid gendering of expectations for boys and girls - far more extreme since these ideas started to take root - began as merely someone's marketing strategy. These expectations now begin in the womb.

It's only a personal theory, of course, but I don't believe the correlation between pinkification and the immediately subsequent spread of GI is a coincidence.

A transman IS a biological woman.
A transwoman IS a biological man.

NB. It's really not helpful to conflate this issue with race. The issues may overlap but are separate, and there's already a lazy effort to lump in gender critical feminists with the US alt right and now, increasingly, Nazism.

It's lazy and inaccurate ideological compartmentalizing, and it helps no one.

It's not conflating and it's definitely not lazy. The language used to justify racism is the same language being used to justify women's oppression. The point is the opposite to what you're making. Colour blind policies supported a racist agenda. Language blind discussions support an anti woman agenda.

"Sex and gender have been synonymous for centuries. It is only the way the use of gender has changed in the last decade or two that has caused this.

Your issue should be with the people who have changed the meaning of the word, not those who use it as it always has been used." Yes it is. But it is also with those people who are 'like who cares anyway' about it all. If those people want to say 'I care enough to want language to stay with the meaning it always used to have' then all good but that's caring isn't it?

Because not all people are offensive.

Yes, I know this. I am a member / subscribed to two of the organisations you mention above, if you want to know.

I was responding to the lie that posters were "proudly" saying "I don't care about abused women".

So forced teaming is OK when it bolsters your argument, not when it contradicts it.

Understood.

It is remarkable how vociferous FWR and posters can be in condemnation of teaming the trans issue with racism etc, but how accepting they can be of it in other situations.

I was responding to the lie that posters were "proudly" saying "I don't care about abused women".

I've not expressed myself clearly. I was responding to the point you raised: Posters have said that it's only on MN where people care about sex vs gender. I'm agreeing with your refutation of that point.

I didn't put that across too well. Sorry about the crossed wires.