Teachers for Evidence-Based Education and Lesbian Alliance have each written about teaching sex & gender in schools

[IwantToRetire]

Not sure if either of these have been on a thread and if so sorry for duplication.

Also, although different, thought it might to useful to have them on the same thread.

A Teachers Guide to Sex and Gender

We share a common concern with many teachers and parents on the safeguarding of children and the preservation of rights of everyone in education.

We believe that sex matters and that to deny the importance of material reality will lead to inequality and conflict between people with different protected characteristics.
We are absolutely opposed to any abuse and harassment of, or discrimination against, anyone or any group. We want schools and colleges to be safe places for everyone where all can learn, work and thrive.

https://ateachersguidetosexandgender.org/

Advice to schools on addressing gender identity issues (letter to Gillian Keeegan)

We are very concerned that you are considering allowing children to ‘socially transition’ and use different pronouns from their biological sex, provided they have parental permission.

This approach contradicts the advice from the Cass Review, which states that schools should not support social transitioning, as if left alone these children often change their minds about identifying as ‘transgender.’

Schools which promote gender identity doctrine as fact may also become involved in ‘lesbian and gay conversion therapy,’ by telling children they have been born in the wrong body and referring them to the GIDs clinics for medical intervention.

In addition, such referrals can be applied to children who are on the autistic spectrum and who do not understand the differences between biological sex and gender.

https://lesbianalliance.org.uk/gender-identity/advice-to-schools-on-addressing-gender-identity-issues/

(See also: Guidance on trans pupils for schools is embroiled in Cabinet row that could delay its introduction until the next school year https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12308725/Guidance-trans-pupils-schools-embroiled-Cabinet-row-delay-introduction-school-year.html)

Good for them. I hope note is taken but I'm not holding my breath.

I appreciate the intentions, but the Cass Review absolutely does not state: “schools should not support social transitioning, as if left alone these children often change their minds about identifying as ‘transgender.”

It’s not helpful for people to misrepresent Cass like that.

rogdmum · Today 22:17
I appreciate the intentions, but the Cass Review absolutely does not state: “schools should not support social transitioning, as if left alone these children often change their minds about identifying as ‘transgender.”

It’s not helpful for people to misrepresent Cass like that.

It us true chinese whispers easily set in and should be avoided, but does anyone have the exact wording to hand?

Cass interim review:

10: Any child or young person being considered for hormone treatment should have a formal diagnosis and formulation, which addresses the full range of factors affecting their physical, mental, developmental and psychosocial wellbeing. This formulation should then inform what options for support and intervention might be helpful for that child or young person.

2.13. Some children and young people may thrive during a period of gender-questioning whilst for others it can be accompanied with a level of distress that can have a significant impact on their functioning and development. 2.14. Alongside these very varied presentations, it is highly unlikely that a single cause for gender incongruence will be found. Many authors view gender expression as a result of a complex interaction between biological, cultural, social and psychological factors. 2.15. Despite a high level of agreement about these points, there are widely divergent and, in some instances, quite polarised views among service users, parents, clinical staff and the wider public about how gender incongruence and gender-related distress in children and young people should be interpreted, and this has a bearing on expectations about clinical management. 2.16. These views will be influenced by how each individual weighs the balance of factors that may lead to gender incongruence, and the distress that may accompany it. Beliefs about whether it might be inherent and/or immutable, whether it might be a transient response to adverse experiences, whether it might be highly fluid and/or likely to change in later adolescence/early adulthood, etc will have a profound influence on expectations about treatment options.20 2.17. All of these views may be overlaid with strongly held concerns about children’s and young people’s rights, autonomy, and/or protection. 2.18. The disagreement and polarisation is heightened when potentially irreversible treatments are given to children and young people, when the evidence base underlying the treatments is inconclusive, and when there is uncertainty about whether, for any particular child or young person, medical intervention is the best way of resolving gender-related distress. 2.19. As with many other contemporary polarised disagreements, the situation is exacerbated when there is no space to have open, non-judgemental discussions about these differing perspectives. A key aim of this review process will be to encourage such discussions in a safe and respectful manner so that progress can be made in finding solutions.

Re: The question of what the Cass Report actually said, below are three screen shots of some pages related to affirmation.

Complex presentations and complex pathways - exemplars, not comprehensive lists

Maturational and transient process

Sexual abuse/ other trauma

Gender dysphoria resolved without transition

Settled sexuality resolves gender dysphoria

Questioning sexual orientation

Continued gender fluidity

Autism & ^other
associated conditions^

Social transition

Longstanding settled gender inconguence

Medical and/or surgical transition

Complex presentations/
Many possible pathways

5.19. There are three types of intervention or treatment for children and young people with gender-related distress, which may be introduced individually or in combination with one another:
• Social transition - this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services.

However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning.84.65 There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it us not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.

Sorry, this is the more relevant bit:
5.19. There are three types of intervention or treatment for children and young people with gender-related distress, which may be introduced individually or in combination with one another: ● Social transition – this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes. ● Counselling, social or psychological interventions – these may be offered before, instead of, or alongside physical interventions. Again, they should be viewed as active interventions which require robust evaluation in their own right. ● Physical treatments – these comprise puberty blockers and feminising/ masculinising hormones (administered by endocrinologists) and surgery. The latter is not considered as part of this Review since it is not available to those under age 18. . It should also be recognised that ‘doing nothing’ cannot be considered a neutral act.

Finnish Adolescent Psychiatry expert, Dr Kaltiala.

In her recent interview Kaltiala suggested that the kind of gender-affirming treatments administered in the US were likely to solidify problems patients were experiencing, rather than treat them.

She said doing things like using children's preferred names or pronouns could be as severe an act as altering their bodies, because it solidifies in their psyches that there is something wrong with their body.

'It's a message saying that this is the right path for you,' she said, adding that changing names and pronouns is 'not a neutral act.'
In her recent interview Kaltiala suggested that the kind of gender-affirming treatments administered in the US were likely to solidify problems patients were experiencing, rather than treat them.
She said doing things like using children's preferred names or pronouns could be as severe an act as altering their bodies, because it solidifies in their psyches that there is something wrong with their body.
'It's a message saying that this is the right path for you,' she said, adding that changing names and pronouns is 'not a neutral act.'

I think we cross posted
Lorrries

5:19 was the relevant part I found too, though maybe there are other related details within the report too.

See in my post above also how Dr Kaltiala, of one of the two Finnish Government Gender Clinics, finds the same.

Sorry, those quotes from Dr Kaltiala came from The Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780631/America-wildly-step-treatment-children-gender-dysphoria.html

Somewhere her whole article must be available. A lot was on Twitter a few months ago put on by Left Sapir but I couldn’t find it just now.

It’s not helpful for people to misrepresent Cass like that.

Which of the 2 reports are you referring to?

Thanks

Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told

... the government then commissioned legal advice from Victoria Prentis, the attorney-general, about whether a ban on social transitioning in schools was possible. Last week she concluded that such a move would be unlawful and said that the government would need to pass new legislation if it wanted to go further.

Prentis said that a blanket ban would be unlawful because the Equalities Act states that gender reassignment is a “protected characteristic”, regardless of age. She gave the same advice when ministers asked whether there could be a ban on social transitioning for primary school children.

The attorney-general and government lawyers advised ministers to caveat the guidance and state that nobody “should” be compelled unless there was a “particular justification” for doing so. Ministers have raised concerns that the approach could give schools grounds to discipline teachers if they failed to respect a child’s chosen gender.

Badenoch also suggested that doctors must be consulted before allowing children to socially transition as part of a “clinical gateway”. Again the attorney-general suggested that the guidance would need to say that they “should” be consulted. The Department for Health said that the NHS would not be able to provide enough doctors and clinical support to advise on whether children should be able to socially transition.

The attorney-general said that if the government wanted to go further on trans guidance for schools it would need to consider putting it on a statutory footing. Prentis herself is said to favour taking a tougher approach on the guidance.

A Whitehall source told The Times: “The government wants to go further but the problem is that this is guidance. It is coming up against the Equalities Act which is the law. If the government wants to go further, it has to change the law.”

More at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-gender-guidance-schools-uk-pupils-pronouns-transition-2023-3w6qdskpc

Available by pasting link above into archive.ph

What do you mean? Do you mean from Cass? There’s only been the one interim report so far and she does not state her view on what should happen in schools. I’ve heard her speak multiple times and to date she has not given a public view on what should or should not happen in schools.

Schools are covered on page 45 of the interim Review under “Other Issues”

Other issues
4.14. Several issues that were raised with us are not explored further in this interim report, but we have taken note of them. These will be considered further during the lifetime of the Review and include:

● The important role of schools and the challenges they face in responding appropriately to gender-questioning children and young people.

That does not say schools should not support social transitioning.

rogdmum · Today 07:11
That does not say schools should not support social transitioning.

On the other hand, this from the Cass Report hardly suggests, or implies, that schools should be wading in by socially transitioning children.

It does however clearly state that socially transitioning a child should be regarded as an active intervention or treatment, even if it does not happen within health services, “because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning.”

…… and that , “It is important to acknowledge it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.”

5.19. There are three types of intervention or treatment for children and young people with gender-related distress, which may be introduced individually or in combination with one another:

• Social transition - this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not somethingthat happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning.84.65

There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it us not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.

What do you mean?

I mean that my OP reference TWO different comment pieces.

Which if these 2 (links in OP) is your comment directed at.

Who has misrepresented Cass?

IwanttoRetire It’s lifted from your OP, text is in the second piece you quoted.

Here is evidence from Finland from the adolescent gender medical expert Dr Kaltiala - well worth reading the whole article.

NB the last few sentences!
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/finland-youth-gender-medicine

“Asked by Helsingin Sanomat what she thought of gender self-identification for minors—a proposed element of the new Finnish law that did not ultimately pass—Kaltiala emphasized that it is “important to accept [children] as they are,” but this means neither pressuring a child to conform to behaviors traditionally associated with the child’s sex nor “negating the body” by confirming that the child’s gender self-identification is real. “In either case,” said the psychiatrist, “the child gets a message that there is something wrong with him or her.” Evidence from a combined 12 studies to date demonstrates that when children with cross-gender or gender variant behavior are left to develop naturally, the vast majority—“four out of five,” according to Kaltiala—come to terms with their bodies and learn to accept their sex. When they are socially transitioned, virtually none do.”

It’s the Lesbian Rights Alliance letter that misquotes Cass.

It’s a slightly clumsy letter IMO.