Life has to be perfect for us to marry

[Magneticlotus]

Dp and I have been engaged now for nearly two years. So I wanted to start discussing potentional planning, all still very rough.

This made dp announce that he didn't want to get married till everything in life was perfect as he wanted our marriage to be symbolic over turning over a new leaf when all our hardships are fleshed out. On one hand I understand what he is saying as our situation in life is less than idealic right now, but on the other hand part of me thinks people get married when they have nothing simply because they love each other. A wedding can bring happiness instead of just waiting for everything around us to align and bring happiness.

I'm starting to think dp doesn't truly love me, I know this may seem a stretch but this mentaliy just feels wrong (or maybe I'm just an unrealistic hopeless romantic). We've been together long enough have. Have a child together. I can't not shake this feeling that this is a reflection of US as a couple rather than life's predicements around us.

Aibu?

Yes, it's time to split up.

He's fundamentally selfish, and even if you did get married, that wouldn't change. Marriage is about commitment through thick and thin, and shared risk. His approach to the relationship is all about what's in it for him. The balance of benefits is all on his side and he doesn't want that to change.

Well life was not perfect when me and DH got married 43 years ago.

We had only known each other 5 months but were very much in love (still are) and wanted to be together. We didn't want to live together so we got married. We had literally no money so it was a cheap register office wedding. We managed to find a small flat to rent but it was in a pretty bad part of London. In fact my mum burst into tears when we told her where we were going to be living because she was convinced we would be murdered in our beds!

If he didn't want a baby then he could have used a condom. He didn't use a condom because of the basic assumption that the consequences would be the woman's to bear (literally).

But OP also chose to go ahead with her pregnancy and have a child without the protection of marriage.

This

Doesn't matter what your job is or how old you are. I would say your biggest issue is you don't have your own place. You can't expect to plan any wedding, big or small, whilst still living with parents surely?

it’s called “getting your sh-t together” which is something that you are struggling at. Your Magical thinking is more fun I agree but so far it has you turned into a single mother on her late 20’s living with her parents which is not ideal and … a bit depressing.

Sorry but I kind of agree with him.
I'm also not sure you love him rather just like the idea of "marriage".
Be careful what you wish for op!

Sorry but life isn't as rose tinted as you think. You're coming across very naive indeed.

Like others, unfortunately I don't think you're on the same page. He obviously does not want to get married.

Not sure I'd be splitting up - though his attitude may well influence how I view him going forward so might have to - but I would be planning a future by myself (and child) so decisions going forward would have to be though that prism rather than what best as a couple or him.

So less a partnership of shared future and goals to both work towards and more a relationship right now that may not last - so much less trust and making sure your not taking career and financial hits due to him. I also wouldn't hide my reasoning either - we may not be together in x years so I have to put me and my child's need first.

I have known a few proposals after years and years of waiting- often wedding gets scaled back due to other expenses despite initial huge plans or it's after some big life shock or when other has one foot out the door - it's rarely the big romantic gesture it's claims to be and more frequently the relationship ends and man moves on very quickly.

We are living together but saving up at families.

If this mean living with family members to save not planning a wedding - even a small one- may well be very diplomatic - family may well expect debts paid and your own place as higher priories. This may be influencing him but it wouldn't preclude a timeframe or a set criteria he wants you to meet - it just comes across as way of saying never without saying never.

my dad is ill and I'm really worried about him not being around by the time we get to marriage

He’s making excuses. Tell him your feelings about your dad. If he is too selfish to marry now, he is not a good partner.

He doesn't want to marry you. You are useful at the moment until he meets someone he wants more.

Sorry.

OP, some people really do put the actual wedding on a massive pedestal. It has to be perfect and they can be really disappointed when they have to 'settle' for what they can afford. People find it embarrassing, people feel exposed etc. It can be a status thing but also it can make people generally feel just sad about the fact they can't event afford to have one day the way they want it whereas others can wipe their arses with £50 notes.

I used to be a wedding manager and have ran several lower budget weddings where the bride has been in tears that everything just looks a bit cheap and shit (in their words). Or worse, when the bride & groom love everything and the guests are judgemental and cruel about the budget and it gets back to them.

It could be that he has these feelings, and can't get over the social status the wedding will 'give' you if it's a lower budget wedding.

I had this with one couple and suggested that it might be better for them to steer away from what their vision is, embrace the low-key, intimate wedding their budget would cover and save for a party for their 1/5/10 year anniversary.

Obviously I don't know the bloke but I'd be thinking he was worried about not being able to afford the wedding he wants and worried that you'll also be disappointed.

Getting married just because OP's father is unwell is a horrendous idea!

They need to get their shit together first - an unplanned baby, debt and no home of their own (even rented) - they need to sort themselves out somewhere to live and sort their debt out first before even beginning to think about marriage.

Obviously I don’t know your DP (or I don’t think I do 😆) but I’ve met some like this. I think some men don’t find marriage important. To them it doesn’t seem to represent love and affection. I can see that it’s very important to you and you want to share it with your family and that you feel you don’t want to leave it too long because of your father’s health. Explain it to your partner and see what he says.
I wonder whether it is the financial cost that’s putting him off at the moment if he has debts to repay. Can you afford this wedding?

A final point that you may want to explore is that I’ve known men who view a wedding as a way to show their friends and family how well they have done in life. Is it this pressure to be seen to be a success that is the issue here? If he has a wedding on the cheap it’s like in some way admitting he’s a failure. I hope you resolve it.

As @SliceOfCakeCupOfTea said!

You don’t need a wedding planner and a 5000 pounds budget to get married, you just need a trip to the registry and an 80 pound document. The expensive party can wait for later once they get their own place and put some savings together. This guy doesn’t want to get married and is using the oldest excuse in the book.

You "want the romantic wedding" so much that you're wondering: "Is this reason enough to break up with him?"

I suspect that you are the problem in this relationship and I don't blame him for his reticence.

It's never going to be perfect though is it?

My DGPs married during the war. The least perfect time although admittedly a very different era.

You need to be married to solidify your rights and if he can't see that or want you to be secure I would be thinking of other options.

Her second post:

And just to say my definition of a wedding doesn't have to be thousands and a big fancy ordeal. I'm happy doing it in a garden.

Nonetheless unless it all meets her "romantic" expectations she's willing to dump him.

This.
The cart has been put ahead of the horse already.

OP, I wouldn't marry anyone who wasn't wholly enthusiastic about being my partner for life. Certainly no one I had to cajole, wheedle or raise the spectre of "my dad might not be here much longer" to push them into the act.

He doesn't want to marry you. He probably will not be your partner much longer. You need to focus on your career, your ability to earn your own living, your child, and put romance on the back burner.

OP! My now DH was very of this mindset (although we didn’t have a baby). He felt if you do things in the right order you get the best results. Although that’s probably quite old fashioned, it has made us very happy to conventionally follow the order of: 1) home purchase 2) engagement 3) wedding 4) baby, all these things cost acres of money and it’s worth being realistic about what your household can bear. If he is saying he wants to buy a home (and then get married once you’ve saved up again) this too is a massive commitment and you’ve already become parents together. A home is an asset that should go up in value, whereas a wedding is a day and an event-based cost. Try to separate emotion from practicality, it’s really not necessarily a case of not loving you enough.

Her "rights" to what, though? It doesn't sound as though he's much of a provider.

I wouldn't entangle myself more than she already is.