AIBU to hate the term mental load?

[YeahIsaidit]

I cringe every time I read it, people lamenting that they can't cope with the mental load, partners aren't taking on an equal share of the mental load, argh! They're chores, household tasks, jobs. Mental load makes it sound like you're suffering from some kind of mental health issue rather than being dragged down by housework, stop it.

Jesus Christ 🤣. Yes having our children has been one positive thing, but do you think I should be so grateful that a man can impregnate women, that being him being unable or refusing to partake in what it takes to raise them/run a home in a balanced and equal way means little in the overall scheme of things? That a man can give you babies so everything else doesn’t matter is the ultimate patriarchal lie.

You’re a misogynist. I don’t know if you’re immature or honestly a man on a wind up at this point, but you are 100% a defender of the shittiest ideals that keep women below men in the social order of life.

Yes, but they aren’t earning as much as men (entirely through their own fault as the gender pay gap is nonsenses so they can’t also whine on about mental load.

All you complainers with your husbands and multiple children just need to be as efficient and all round awesome as the OP with her one teenage child.

I can't comment on a relationship I know nothing about, whyd you have more than one kid with a loser?

I'm not defending men I'm saying that women are dragging themselves down whining about work they're either making for themselves or is literally nothing more than being an adult/parent that we all deal with. It's life

You are missing the point so spectacularly.

The term mental load exists to describe - and therefore discuss - the project management of adulting. Without a term to explain it, it’s impossible to discuss the division of all the household labour. And without a way to discuss the division, it’s impossible to determine if the division is fair or not.

You might think that the project management is simple, and just part of normal life, and you might even be right (especially in a 2 person household, where both people are capable of looking after themselves, which is what you know) - but you are wrong if you are saying that the thinking / planning (‘project management’) part doesn’t exist.

You don’t even need to call it a mental load, because it’s not something that you need to consider at all in your set up. It is all a normal part of adulting, no one is suggesting otherwise - what we are trying to explain is that too often, the division of the adulting is unfairly split - and not always because of an agreement that one partner will provide the money and the other the thinking.

You are not all women or all men, and clearly have no understanding of what it is to run a complicated, multi-person household. Think of yourself as a project manager on a kitchen renovation; other people are project managing the building of a new town. It’s easy for you because you don’t have the same level of responsibility or complexity.

I know plenty of women who are the primary breadwinners, yet still shoulder the responsibility of the household project management. Perhaps some of that is that they better understand the importance of the ‘soft politics’ of play dates, birthday parties / presents, the work that goes into maintaining friendships and familial relationships. Maybe it’s because they have higher standards for cleanliness or tardiness (possibly because as the female, they will be harsher judged than the men thanks to societal disparity), but that’s all beside the point.

What matters is that the project management part exists, and should be acknowledged alongside the actual doing. We call it mental load because it differentiates it from the physical tasks.

or is literally nothing more than being an adult/parent that we all deal with

Not all, that only women deal with. Because it’s ingrained in us that it is our jobs and ours alone. On top of bringing in our own money and worrying about bills. Let me for the last time break down this down for you:

Women's role in a family: household chores, admin, telling others what chores and admin need doing, be pregnant, give birth, lose part of a career doing these duties, going back to work once children are old enough, figure out how to balance work and pay for childcare, usually pay for childcare out of her wage alone, use her money to pay for all that the children need otherwise, worry about/pay other household bills, taking children to doctors appointments/dentist, meeting their teachers, making sure the children are doing all they need for school, checking bags for letters, which days they need lunch boxes and which they want hot dinners, do they need money for school dinners, keeping them clean and tidy, reminding them of everything they need to do in the tween stage, arranging after school activities, play dates, oh maybe at some point finding the time for the woman’s self care, the gym, a haircut, the garden needs sorting, his mum said she’s coming to visit so have to prepare food, maybe the spare bed to sleep in, make sure she feels welcome in our home… and etc.

Man’s role in a family: Go to work, set up directs debits, wish he had a nicer car, take up a hobby on the weekend that impacts family life, occasionally check in that the children are turning into half decent humans with a few qualifications, be nagged at to do the garden, moan to others about being nagged at, ignore mother visiting for work/hobby, get mother to tell DiL that she is so lucky to have a man that looks after her so well by going to work then getting out from under her feet on the weekend, have sex, moan that wife is constantly tired for some reason. And etc.

No, I got that from the majority of your posts. It was just you spelled it out in that particular one.

But through your posts it’s very clear that we’re not all dealing with the same stuff. It’s easier to be a single adult/parent to a child old enough to work than it is to parent two or more small children. You have less to do and thus less mental load, which is abundantly clear from your “just do it” posts and your acres of time to peruse cupboards and decide what you fancy each night or pop to the shop multiple times.

You can’t “just do it” on the limited time/extended stuff to do ratio, so you have to make a list, and the list balloons into the mental load. And I don’t bother with cards for DP’s family or ensuring he has a nice suit for work or unnecessary nonsense; I’m talking necessary stuff like the laundry – and not your paltry two days a week – or labelling all the kids’ clothes for school/nursery (I know you’ll pick up on this and say “just do it, takes five minutes”, let’s not bother eh), or yes, the meal plan so we can do the online shop so we can save time and make sure two hangry children get fed regularly and nutritiously, and a million more things besides.

The mental load – or being an adult, if you prefer is many, many five-minute tasks that are not in themselves difficult (except perhaps wrangling a second child onto child benefit, which HMRC makes as lengthy a process as possible). A bit like looking after a baby isn’t difficult: it’s not rocket salad to change a nappy or give a feed or burp or cuddle. It’s the quantity of what’s needed and the fallout if it doesn’t get done. All those five-minute tasks need to be kept track of or they fall through the gaps. You deal with that by having fewer tasks and a phone that beeps endlessly and playing worky ticket on Mumsnet. Others give it the label mental load and get on with our day; I’m still failing to see what bothers you about other women labelling something as a load that you happen to find easy or non-existent.

Are you all thinking my son just appeared out of nowhere a fairly independent teen? Talking like I don't know the struggles of dealing with young children like I've never had one

You only ever dealt with one young child, and presumably for part of the time, it was with your ex. I remember how simple it was with one young child. Add more and everything gets exponentially trickier.

We get it, you’re bossing this adulting lark - well done!

But your adulting isn’t as complicated as ours, so if you can’t be an ally and support your fellow women, then at least stop tearing them down, eh?

Wow. Just skimmed through all OP’s posts. OP is a fully paid-up misogynist then! That’s where this thread is coming from. Hardly seems worth engaging in that case, but…

OP, do you understand that ‘mental load’ is only really applicable when it’s unbalanced? Therefore it doesn’t apply to single-parent households. So you don’t need to use the term - phew!

Women tend to use the word to describe the absolutely endemic situation whereby women also work full-time but seem to have to project-manage every household/family issue. It’s a feminist issue, which is probably why it’s made you so angry. (You might get on quite well with Ben Shapiro you know!)

It’s no good saying ‘well, don’t marry an arsehole - problem solved!’ as if you’re an alien visiting earth for the first time. Are you unaware of the centuries of misogynistic bullshit that contributed to deeply ingrained gender ideas that still influence almost every aspect of our lives? Do you think men and women operate under the same pressures and expectations just because there are laws that legislate for sexual equality? If so, you’re a simpleton.

However, as I said, if you’re single, you don’t have this particular issue.

There are some women who are in absolutely awful situations where they have to endure some terrible hardships (illness, abuse etc) but generally women aren't forced to into relationships and women aren't forced to have children. How many are choosing to have kids, often multiple kids, with with 'useless' men then choosing to do the women's work.

However, as I said, if you’re single, you don’t have this particular issue.

I don’t completely agree with this. If you’re single with children and still are fully responsible for making sure they’re clothed, clean, fed, getting to school, doing their homework, sorting their birthdays and Christmas and the other million of other things that come with raising kids, then there is still a man somewhere that is absolving himself of the mental load that is equally his to burden.

It’s absolutely easier as you don’t have to add in the mental load of him not seeing what need to be done in the home as well - a huge part of it is simply having to consistently direct another grown adult into things women themselves just see and do without being told. But (and this is just a personal case obviously) I still have to text my ex ‘what time do you want the children’ when he wants the day with them, I’ve turned up before and he’s not been awake or not ready yet. I have to take their clothes in a bag and bring them back to wash every weekend because despite knowing children need to be clothed he still hasn’t sorted out a wardrobe of things for them. I have to update him on all school and medical matters because he doesn’t ask, I doubt he’d know their teachers names if I asked him never mind the meetings and arrangements we’ve been doing. I’ve been spending years working with HCPs and education services to get our children diagnosed with autism - they often ask for the parents view of their children. When told, has he even written one sentence describing what he sees as his children’s additional needs? And this isn’t me playing martyr, it’s all about the children being cared for in the best possible way and only one parent out of the two they have is putting any effort in.

"We all deal with"

You don't though OP. You don't remotely have the mental load of a wife/person with multiple children. You just keep insisting you're doing the same because you also go the the supermarket (for yourself and one teenage child). Your physical load is that of one extra person. Your mental load, the same. That's small. Not non existent, but small.

As a direct comparison, it was incredibly easy when I was a single parent with one DC too. Even when he was little and much more dependent. It seems you don't want to hear how easy you have it, even though many of us have been in your shoes and know it is, compared to our new situations. Critical difference is that you've never experienced our situation, yet with that nil experience you remain determined that it's really no different to you now.

Because you can't accept it's quite simply, your situation is easier, you prefer to declare it's those who have much more on their plate making gross exaggeration.

You aren't in the same situation. It's directly related to the number of extra people in your household, that aren't you. You've got one. Who's nearly an adult.

@Gerrataere
Yes, totally agree that all those jobs are still necessary- just that there’s no point in talking about it in terms of the ‘mental load’ because there’s no one to split it with!

Why are you blaming women for men not picking up the slack over their own homes and children? This isn’t about a few feckless layabouts, this is a common problem. When pushed in their ‘wonderfully helpful husbands’ many women will concede that the men do pull their weight… when the things that need doing have been pointed out or listed to them. They don’t recognise they’re still taking on more mental load than needed because at least their husbands ‘do things’.

My point is when there’s children involved, split or not it’s still a shared responsibility. When separation happens it’s between the adults, it doesn’t mean that men should be just turning up to play with the kids for a few hours because they’re fully ‘mum’s responsibility now’. I know that’s generally what does happen, sometimes a split does kick a few men into gear for their kids but it doesn’t make it right that a man thinks his responsibility for the kids is a ‘on my weekend’ job only.

Yes, you’re quite right. Agreed.

Yes, it is amazing how many people are unable to really see and understand gender inequality. It’s not something that can be fixed overnight. It’s baked in and, apparently, completely invisible to many.

In my experience, even outside of personal relationships, men consider cleaning to be beneath them and will try to delegate to women. At work, I manage a shop and in 12 years, we've only just hired a young man, who for the first time, will get on with the cleaning jobs without making it a big deal.

They all know from the job advert and interview that the job includes daily vaccuming, cleaning toilets etc. They're handed a detailed list of cleaning jobs including what product to use and where the supplies are kept. For the first couple of shifts I go through the jobs with them, make sure they're happy with what they're doing and where everything is. Without fail, the men suddenly develop amnesia after the first month, jobs will get missed, they suddenly don't know where the plug sockets are for the vacuum cleaner, etc. Conveniently, they only act this way when they're working a shift with me. When DH is managing them they don't ask stupid questions. It's never been an issue with my female colleagues either, they just crack on with the jobs.

@Gerrataere Why are you blaming women for men not picking up the slack over their own homes and children?

I obviously think lazy feckless men are awful but unless the women are in particularly shit situations it's the WOMEN that are having kids with these men. I KNOW some men change personalities after having kids but how do women end up with multiple children with hopeless men. ( and yes I know there are some women that are coerced into these situations but surely that's not the vast majority) and then are choosing to do the women's work. Are women really that submissive that they have no control over these things.

My husband does stuff for my and I do stuff for him. He has undoubtedly had much more on his plate during our marriage than I have and we've had 4 kids together. If anyone should be complaining it would be him. ( I stress that I understand that this partly due to luck in that we haven't had particularly difficult challenges such as health issues)

There's a degree of this.

When a woman is unhappy and complaining about the imbalance of the mental load within the relationship with one child, then absolutely she should take accountability for choosing another (and another...) child, knowing it will multiply her difficulties substantially, but then moans about it. In that instance she needs to take relevant responsibility for her choices.

I think also, it's more if the mental load bothers you. Like you, I have multiple DC. I bear almost all the mental load. But I don't particularly care, because I don't mind it. Yes it's neverending, but that's not a problem, and I don't resent the other people in my house for it. That's when the issues start. I do "just get on with it" regarding the mental load, but it absolutely exists.

Why are women having several children with men they deem useless. That is their fault

I think also, it's more if the mental load bothers you. Like you, I have multiple DC. I bear almost all the mental load. But I don't particularly care, because I don't mind it. Yes it's neverending, but that's not a problem, and I don't resent the other people in my house for it. That's when the issues start. I do "just get on with it" regarding the mental load, but it absolutely exists.

I also think there is a balance between the two. So yes you might find the mental load burdensome and moan about it, but that's not enough to make you leave the relationship. I think it's fair enough for people to complain about things they find hard in their life and relationship, even if it's not a dealbreaker.

This habit of blaming women for men’s inadequacy bothers me a bit.

It’s as if people are unaware, even when it’s pointed out to them, that these are societal issues, not individual, unrelated problematic relationships. It’s very, very hard for anyone to separate themselves entirely from social norms and societal pressures. It’s like when people claim that they, say, remove all their body hair just because the idea came to them, in isolation, without any reference to sexist social pressures 🙄

Do people think it’s just a massive coincidence that, when the mental load is unequal, it’s almost always the woman who carries the larger burden? And these women just happen to be stupid and pick the dud men?

Or could it be that vast societal pressures and expectations, that have been millennia in the making, do not just disappear overnight? Men have licence from society to exploit female labour. Each individual relationship is part of a much bigger picture.

Oh goodness, do you need a millennia of the conditioning of women and their forced roles as mothers and carers explained to you? I don’t think there are words small enough for you to gain understanding of why this happens and why it hasn’t magically stopped happening over the last few years of supposed female liberation….