Page 7 | School detentions

Drhollyfrazier · 2023-07-18T09:14:35+00:00

They just don’t sit right with me at all. Teachers don’t want to be there so why do they insist on keeping children after school? I don’t understand where the mentality comes from that they can keep children there as a punishment past when they have to be there. Also lunch time detentions. Kids can have a break which would probably refresh them for the last few hours of the day but keeping them from their friends and a break from out of the classroom is surely only going to bring out an attitude and negative mood for the rest of the day. When I was in high school 2007-13, I was often given detention for not completing homework, pretty much every week. That’s because I was so depressed during that time I wouldn’t get any sleep all night, having panic attacks, sometimes self harming. Every subjects teacher missed the warning signs of my MH and the response was detentions. I just think it is absolutely not the right of schools to keep kids after school hours. aibu

MrWhippersnapper · 18/07/2023 17:33

What a pile of shite

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:00

noblegiraffe · 18/07/2023 11:07

Not sure of the law in Scotland but in England parents do not have the right to overrule the school on detentions, so you might want to check that out.

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How does that work then?

Teachers can’t lock children in rooms or physically hold them there so if a child has been told by their parents to go home and not do detention, then that’s that.

School also can’t refuse to release a child to a parent who turns up to collect them (unless there is a court order in place), so again, they can’t force detention.

viques · 18/07/2023 18:11

BluNomad · 18/07/2023 12:16

Totally agree OP my dc will absolutely not be attending detentions should she ever happen to get one

What will you do if it is a lunchtime detention? Rock up and say she is a home dinner child and you are taking her home?

viques · 18/07/2023 18:16

Marblessolveeverything · 18/07/2023 14:58

@Nanny0gg I've not had first hand experience we haven't had issues with hitting/kicking since Senior infants (aged 5/6). My understanding is you remove the child calming identify what is happening for that child in that moment. The idea is to sort the root of the issue.

The kind of issues I have heard was one child broke the treat jar while messing about while the teacher stepped out. It was glass - nobody hurt thankfully. They were 11 so 5th class here - old enough to know better. The teacher sat them around and discussed the trust they had built up in their class and how it afforded them all easier access to free time/engagement with sports equipment when work was done. How the breach of this trust impacted all so they were asked as a group led by the child who had taken the action to work out a way to sort this out.

They came up with the child missing the film night and working with an adult cleaning it up and apologising. It is really a mindset and I probably am not explaining it well.

We don't have too many physical issues - it is a small school (less than 400 in primary, and the same in secondary). There is a lot of close support for those that need support - be it officially with a behavioural challenge or those who for whatever reason have quick reactive behaviour.

I remember as a child seeing one teacher a lifetime ago throwing a bucket of cold water on two boys fighting when I was a child. Probably not ideal but it worked.

Don’t spread that bucket of water story around please. Too often schools with a leaking roof have to have strategically placed buckets to catch rainwater, if the powers that be realise they can call them “behaviour management tools” those holes in the roof will never be fixed.

Foxesandsquirrels · 18/07/2023 18:23

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:00

How does that work then?

Teachers can’t lock children in rooms or physically hold them there so if a child has been told by their parents to go home and not do detention, then that’s that.

School also can’t refuse to release a child to a parent who turns up to collect them (unless there is a court order in place), so again, they can’t force detention.

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Your responsibility is to educate your child, how you choose that is up to you. Your local authority has a duty to provide an educational establishment for you to send your child to, if you choose to fulfil your duty that way. You may also home educate or send private.
If you take up the local authorities offer and choose to send your child to that school, than you need to abide by that schools rules. It is not up to you to decide your child is more important than those rules. If you don't like it, you can fulfil your duty to educate your child in another way. Move them to another school or homeschool.

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:31

Foxesandsquirrels · 18/07/2023 18:23

Your responsibility is to educate your child, how you choose that is up to you. Your local authority has a duty to provide an educational establishment for you to send your child to, if you choose to fulfil your duty that way. You may also home educate or send private.
If you take up the local authorities offer and choose to send your child to that school, than you need to abide by that schools rules. It is not up to you to decide your child is more important than those rules. If you don't like it, you can fulfil your duty to educate your child in another way. Move them to another school or homeschool.

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Um, I do home educate at the moment (primary school), and my child will be going to an (independent) democratic school for high school hopefully (disability related so it is touch and go whether it will be possible).

I was just wondering- given the limitations of the schools power- how they can force a determination where the parents say otherwise. I would suggest they can’t actually enforce it.

noblegiraffe · 18/07/2023 18:41

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:00

How does that work then?

Teachers can’t lock children in rooms or physically hold them there so if a child has been told by their parents to go home and not do detention, then that’s that.

School also can’t refuse to release a child to a parent who turns up to collect them (unless there is a court order in place), so again, they can’t force detention.

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No, but they can then implement an escalated sanction for missing the detention.

Foxesandsquirrels · 18/07/2023 18:42

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:31

Um, I do home educate at the moment (primary school), and my child will be going to an (independent) democratic school for high school hopefully (disability related so it is touch and go whether it will be possible).

I was just wondering- given the limitations of the schools power- how they can force a determination where the parents say otherwise. I would suggest they can’t actually enforce it.

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The limitations were lifted hears ago. Schools can do this.

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:45

Foxesandsquirrels · 18/07/2023 18:42

The limitations were lifted hears ago. Schools can do this.

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Can do what?

NewDayNewDiary · 18/07/2023 18:54

BluNomad · 18/07/2023 12:16

Totally agree OP my dc will absolutely not be attending detentions should she ever happen to get one

I honestly think kids with parents like this are doomed from the start. The teachers may as well give up trying from day one! Why waste effort on a kid coming from a background like this.

GrapeHyacinth · 18/07/2023 18:55

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 18:00

How does that work then?

Teachers can’t lock children in rooms or physically hold them there so if a child has been told by their parents to go home and not do detention, then that’s that.

School also can’t refuse to release a child to a parent who turns up to collect them (unless there is a court order in place), so again, they can’t force detention.

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If a child wasn't attending detentions, it would escalate to internal exclusion/isolation. If they were refusing to attend that, it would escalate to exclusion.

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 19:01

GrapeHyacinth · 18/07/2023 18:55

If a child wasn't attending detentions, it would escalate to internal exclusion/isolation. If they were refusing to attend that, it would escalate to exclusion.

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This seems like it could get into a real tit for tat situation with some poor kid stuck in the middle.

GrapeHyacinth · 18/07/2023 19:05

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 19:01

This seems like it could get into a real tit for tat situation with some poor kid stuck in the middle.

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Yes. I feel sorry for kids whose parents care more about fighting teachers than their own child's education.

MrWhippersnapper · 18/07/2023 19:05

rka2017 · 18/07/2023 14:17

What’s the point of home work club?

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To give children a safe place to work, access to IT etc that they may not have at home.

Abbimae · 18/07/2023 19:11

Do you suggest we just have a little word after they have punched us/someone else/broken school equipment etc? Really have a word with to yourself

Yellowlegobrick · 18/07/2023 19:26

What punishments/sanctions do you think teachers should be able to impose?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 18/07/2023 19:32

Cool. We'll just let the kid who has told another that they're going to be stabbed (and means it) on the way home out to catch the same bus as their target, shall we? What about if we haven't heard about it yet because they've planned it more effectively or terrorised the victim into not saying anything, but they've been spoiling for a fight all day and has 'only' been caught lobbing stuff at their planned victim?

What about the one who rolls in just before break? Shall we do something when they're 11 and have been 5-10 minutes late 3 times, or shall we wait until they've decided that school is clearly optional and nobody has any idea where they are, who they are with and whether anything has happened to them?

What's the Restorative Justice for attempting to put another child in hospital by shoving them down the stairs? Or a member of staff has been barged past because the student thinks all women must give way to him or he'll let them know he can and will hurt them whenever he feels like it?

What about the one who isn't a direct threat to physical safety, but uses every means at their disposal to mentally torture another kid? Ask them to make a card saying sorry? When they are telling them to kill themselves?

MichelleScarn · 18/07/2023 19:41

Just as long as you check parents approve remember @NeverDropYourMooncup 🙄

Yellowlegobrick · 18/07/2023 19:44

God it pisses me off all these parents thinking their little snowflakes must never be told off/face punishment/do anything they don't want to do. Its why secondary schools are full of entitled little arseholes destroying things for the other kids who just want to get on.

Sideorderofchips · 18/07/2023 19:45

Well parents like you are a big part of what's wrong with education op 🤷‍♀️ why would your kids choose to behave if they know mummy will get them out of their detention.

Fairislefandango · 18/07/2023 19:46

Admittedly I have read through the thread pretty quickly, but I've yet to see any proper, specific suggestions as to what kind of sanctions are appropriate for what the OP regards as non-behaviour-related infractions.

I would remind the 'my child, my decision' parents that teachers are held accountable for your child's performance. Your child's performance is potentially affected by whether they bother to do homework, turn up to school on time, bring the equipment they need etc, so we need to use deterrents to stop them not bothering. Asking them nicely doesn't work. If there is no sanction for not doing work, more kids won't do it! Anyway, it is behaviour-related if they are failing to do something they've been told to do.

Sarah86lou · 18/07/2023 19:46

well you sound like supportive parents!!! Maybe you should homeschool instead?!

Sideorderofchips · 18/07/2023 19:49

Also op you seem the sort of parent whose child would then fail their education and it would be the schools fault for not doing something about it/their behaviour/their commitment to learning sooner...

Starlightstarbright2 · 18/07/2023 19:57

My dc has adhd - so his organisation skills are dire . He has never had a detention for not having ruler , he has also broken phone policy - teacher emailed me saying he didn’t think she was serious - so my reply was I have had a conversation ( my Ds and myself ) agreed when he would put phone away - I relayed this to teacher and told her if he didn’t to confiscate it. I have to support the teachers …

You don’t note your parents didn’t notice / flag issue . Teachers imo have a lot more conversation these days with children - write numerous safeguarding reports when required. But some kids just push boundaries and need the security of those boundaries

Plymsoul · 18/07/2023 19:57

NeverDropYourMooncup · 18/07/2023 19:32

Cool. We'll just let the kid who has told another that they're going to be stabbed (and means it) on the way home out to catch the same bus as their target, shall we? What about if we haven't heard about it yet because they've planned it more effectively or terrorised the victim into not saying anything, but they've been spoiling for a fight all day and has 'only' been caught lobbing stuff at their planned victim?

What about the one who rolls in just before break? Shall we do something when they're 11 and have been 5-10 minutes late 3 times, or shall we wait until they've decided that school is clearly optional and nobody has any idea where they are, who they are with and whether anything has happened to them?

What's the Restorative Justice for attempting to put another child in hospital by shoving them down the stairs? Or a member of staff has been barged past because the student thinks all women must give way to him or he'll let them know he can and will hurt them whenever he feels like it?

What about the one who isn't a direct threat to physical safety, but uses every means at their disposal to mentally torture another kid? Ask them to make a card saying sorry? When they are telling them to kill themselves?

@NeverDropYourMooncup I don’t think an hours detention is appropriate if someone has pushed somebody down the stairs, or threatened to stab them.

If you get an hours detention for that but also get an hour’s detention for forgetting your homework I can see why the forgot their homework/10 minutes late brigade’s parents would be pissed off… it isn’t proportional.