To think some people don’t think opportunity is out there and so they remain in a lower standard of living?

[upugotep]

Sort of inspired by the post about what makes a high earner, it reminded me of a friend who has gone through her life literally never thinking she can earn more.

We had massively different backgrounds and it was expected of me that I should go into a professional job and progress etc. Around ten years into our friendship in our very early 30s, my friend was talking about her ‘wealthy’ family friends, whose dad at 50 had just been promoted and was now earning 52k. She followed this up with ‘I can’t even imagine it, I will never be on anything near 50k.’ At this point I was on 58k and hopeful that my pay would increase a lot in future.

I didn’t say anything other than she might be surprised if she put herself out there that more could be earned.

What I found odd about it is that she is highly intelligent, very employable, personable, just brilliant really. It’s purely her lack of belief in another sort of life and her expectations of herself that hold her back. I am slightly better educated than her but only because of my background and she would absolutely be a competitor to me in an interview and probably get the job over me. I actually think it’s a dirty secret that those ‘at the top’ like to make out they are something special and it’s unattainable when actually it’s not. Why on earth should my friend think 50k is unattainable when she was only 31?!

This thread reminds me of a woman I saw on TV pre Brexit referendum who said that she would see it as a bonus if opportunities were more limited overseas as her kids had expressed that they might want to move abroad and she literally wanted them to remain on the doorstep.

I grew up in a midlands mining town and at one point had a very interesting job but it was 12,miles away and caught the bus every day (40 minutes) local people there couldn't understand why on Earth I would do that.

I can honestly say that few people wanted to put themselves out , be it move for better prospects, more life, better qualifications and family often were not supportive of those who 'got on' . On the plus side it did have a better sense of community and people knowing each other years and relatives on hand to help with families.

My parents were extremely unhappy about me getting into a level of debt at all as a young person. They’re financially very risk averse indeed, any savings they had were in cash (no shares or bonds), and whilst they funded my university degrees in the 1990s, they gave a minimum allowance (which I was grateful for, of course) and I worked part time throughout, but it was a very different experience than many of my peers, who had student loans as a minimum. No travelling, far fewer culturally enhancing experiences etc. But i think this view about money and risk made them have a ceiling on their income. They could at one stage have definitely afforded to buy an investment property, with a low mortgage, but that would have been too risky for them to contemplate. They’d have made a large amount (in hindsight!). They could have taken advance of the local government employer pension, but they saved the money they should have contributed instead despite working for the local authority for decades between them. They could have invested in any number of things, but wanted to keep their money in cash accounts.

More risk balanced people would have elevated themselves far more.

@GarlicGrace You've reminded me of my relative's interview experience, where they managed to paper over the cracks in their working-class-done-good history and keep the rapport going with the frightfully frightfully gentleman interviewing... right up until the point at which they were asked what school they went to. Being in their forties at the time and having gone to the local comp it took them a second to even parse the question, which was answer enough in itself really.

This usually has lots to do with what kind of family / upbringing you’re from and whether you have any confidence in your own decisions

as you go up the work chain and are given more responsibility, it’s my experience that you have to be confident defending decisions and managing conflicts (in most jobs) this is where I’ve seen people really struggle (including myself). The people I’ve seen generally excel in these areas tend to be confident people who don’t outwardly show that this is difficult for them (although I don’t know how they feel inside) and often are people who have benefited from good self esteem, personal investment from others and good support. It’s almost unthinkable for some people to believe they could handle a really high paid job because they lack these attributes.

I’ve worked for about 7 years with a group of women with varying skills, but all uni educated , professional and initially all of us were on about 50k ish. The women who are now further up the salary scale aren’t necessarily the most intelligent / skilled of the group, but the most confident / least risk averse, most likely to give / stand by ideas. In fact the most hardworking person has probably experienced the least progression.

If you are successful, earn a lot, then that should be congratulated, not sneered upon

Personally, I don’t measure my life success by my earnings alone. I enjoy what I do, I don’t particularly aspire to management, I’m good at my job, I make a difference in people’s lives, I am respected, well-thought of in my workplace, I have good friends, enjoy an active social life, have great kids who have grown into interesting and have opinions and their own aspirations. I own a modest home and car. I can pay my bills. I go to the theatre, eat out, have hobbies and take at least one holiday a year. I helped my old parents when they needed me, including down grading my role at the time to give me some space to care. In my opinion, people who consider themselves successful as a result of their higher than average salary and little else need to have a good look at that bigger life picture.

Basic Sociology tells you the basics, education, class and housing all effects outcomes .

anecdotal examples of people who did well despite going up in poverty are the exception rather than the rule.

I grew up in a family with money but not class - I was a vet unhappy child and figured having a lot of money wasn’t going to make me happy - I have a child with additional needs so limited work options as I have needed to be able to take calls or collect Ds when necessary .

The current challenges to funding to university … many young people who might have gone to university won’t I believe this will leave to university only been available generally to the higher classes.

I have working class background, tradesman dad, admin mum. I have a degree professional job and little confidence.

Even when I started work, I couldn't imagine the bosses ever starting out at the bottom. You know that thing that they just appeared as 50 yo men who never went to school or started their first job 🤣

I do think lots of working class people don't expect their kids to ever be in the top job or get promoted.

But there is also a thing in school, education isn't valued, the way it should be.

You seem to imply that anyone earning a lot can't do all those things too?

I agree. I earn £40k after a recent promotion within same company. I’m mid-20s. I do plan on getting further promotions, whether that’s in my company or outside of it, so expect my salary to continue to increase as I age. I’m just starting out!

However loads of people in my old role are happy to stay in that role until they retire, been on their £28k salary for 20+ years so think my payrise is shocking! there’s been lots of positive and negative comments about me, I’m a topic for gossip for them just because they didn’t have the same ambition when they were my age. There’s nothing stopping them from progressing in their career, they’re just not interested.

I think socioeconomic status plays into it. One of my parents was a specialist NHS consultant, the other was self employed business owner who brought in even more money. Equally their friends are well paid professionals and that is mirrored in my life. People I went to uni with are on 5 figure salaries now! So I’m not of the mindset that £28k will set me up for life - there isn’t a ceiling there.

Exactly! It’s a stupid post as most people would need to earn a lot to be able to afford all that anyway. Not everyone can afford a demotion and the hit to their pay to facilitate caring for family for example, let alone doing that whilst simultaneously being a home/car over that can afford all bills, holidays, theatre, eating out etc

That tends to be a neo-Liberal narrative - that people hold themselves back, that institutional disadvantage isnt a thing and therefore governmemt efforts to level the playing field are not going to help.

My parents bought me up to believe I would never progress learn to drive and would just about be able to hold a job in a factory
they told everyone around me this it’s kind of hard to break out from that mindset

Exactly that
I browse the job websites every so often and I don't have the specific qualifications they ask for let alone the experience
39 now and on min wage plus commission

Isn't it strange how easy it is to suggest that people with a different background from your own should be able to just shake off the deeply-ingrained views and attitudes created by their upbringing, while happily clinging to your own because they happen to be ones that serve you well?

Do you do the same jobs? Or same field?

Here's a job example near me, I would like to earn 30k and this is 31k

It's 40hrs a week, including weekends, anything between 8am - 10pm and they want all of this (which I know from seeing what managers do will be a nightmare and I don't have the experience they want)

I see people on here earning 100k, I looked up a job that was paying that out of interest
For 100k they want

Tertiary qualified in a relevant discipline (social sciences, community development, civil engineering, project management).
• Minimum of 15-20 years' experience managing mutlimillion dollar social and/or infrastructure projects
Oh and for you to speak Swahili or another local language

@bonfirebash you’re right, six figure salaries don’t grow on trees they are only open to a few very qualified and / or very lucky people

Last time we checked, you can’t eat art. Or use it as shelter or medicine. It’s the money makers that pay for the things we NEED.

Do you think high earner never venture anywhere near the theatre, or eat out or go on holiday? What an odd take on things.

Kalodin
A mix of these things every single month for years
Emergency fund
Private pensions
Premium bonds
Cash isa
Stocks and shares isa
Bonds
Pay down mortgage
Also remortgage to invest in rental property
Lately on a more fun level collectables, gold, jewelry, fine wine, coins, art etc

Wrong.

Accumulating massive debt in order to get a pointless degree is a big step backwards for social mobility and kids' aspirations. The world does not need more media studies graduates.

Some people get the nod and encouraged to apply for promotion whereas others faces don't fit. Firms bring in mentorship schemes which can help

@Swrigh1234 i’d push back gently on that assumption. Philosophy Politics and Economics is a bit of an airy fairy thing to study and it’s given our country dozens of prime ministers. Unless you’re going to be a doctor you probably won’t use the content of your degree so the idea a degree is ‘useless’ is a bit weird. It’s usefulness or otherwise is about the way the student learns skills like problem solving and time management.

Having worked with literally hundreds of grads over the years i’d say these skills do tend to differentiate people who have been to uni over those who didn’t, and what subject they studied didn’t tend to make a difference to how they performed as an employee.

Graduate minimum most places is a 2:1 though so all the people i’m talking about had at least applied themselves and done well.

Unless you’re going to be a doctor you probably won’t use the content of your degree

Or social worker, occupational therapist, nurse, teacher, microbiologist, structural engineer, pharmacist, industrial chemist… etc etc There are very many degrees where folk use that content day in day out. Critical thinking and problem solving are important but spending years and £1000s to gain those skills in the absence of needing specialised knowledge isn’t a great use of either time or money.

Wrong in your opinion you mean. I went to university in the final throes of free tuition and also got a small grant to live on. I wouldn't have been able to afford to go otherwise as my parents were not well off though they did support higher education. I was on a course with a number of others who also wouldn't have been able to afford to go. Some were single parents, mature students etc. We were on a course that you may well deem pointless but it was a gateway into a good career nonetheless.