Did we ruin daughter by spoiling

[Daringbear]

Hi,
First of all I'm going to be quite vulnerable and I know this is my own doing so please be nice, even if harsh.
My only daughter is 17, she is 18 at the start of August. She was an incredibly wanted child, my husband and I had been trying for 6 years, several miscarriages, failed IVF rounds, it was emotionally the hardest time of my life. When our daughter was born 5 weeks early, and so desperately wanted all we wanted to do was spoil her. We were 35 and 38 by the time she was born, we had 6 extra years of career advancement so were in a financially good place and could spoil her. We knew we wouldn't have more children so we really put it all into our girl. She was also 5 years younger than her closest in age cousin, of which she only has 3 and all boys, so being the only girl and youngest she was also massively spoilt by grandparents. My husband and I aren't massively social people, we had two close friends who were in similar positions and kids a little older. We live in a town where most people are comfortable financially, the house prices are much higher than the rest of the region, so all of daughters socialising have been with children similar to her.
She was also among the youngest in her year, I was terrified she would feel less than etc. so we pushed our financial limits for piano lessons, ballet, tennis, vocal coaching etc. The best schools in our area were state schools so there wasn't that but we did cripple ourselves financially to ensure she never had to struggle, tutors too from about year 5.
Now to the current point my daughter is due to start university in September and increasingly as I view her more and more as an adult I realise she isn't very likeable, she isn't lazy, she is always busy but never doing anything of worth, we told her to get a summer job, she looked for a day said they sounded boring and gave up, my husband still gives her, an allowance, refuses to stop and I find it impossible to be mad at her. So her summer has been spent shopping, enjoying the sun, playing sports, being with friends, going to the gym etc. nothing actually useful. She also has expensive taste and the only way I can describe it is she comes across snobby, she will talk down to me if she thinks my clothes are cheap etc.
She was very popular in school and sixth form, always had loads of friends and her reputation amongst them seems different than the girl I know. For the year book they got random people in the year to comment on the person and several of my daughters were about her being nice/friendly.
The other issue which is pretty new, she is a massive flirt!! She is very naturally pretty, tall, slim, blonde etc. and she is definitely not afraid to flaunt this. I hate it, she can come across very shallow. She will blatantly flirt with waiters etc. even Infront of me, it turns my stomach.
If I were to sum her up I'd use words like, smart, beautiful and eloquent but also shallow, snobby, stuck up and narcissistic. I hate that these are words I'd want to use.
My husband doesn't see it, still spoils her, has just bought her the most expensive tickets for Taylor Swift and a stupidly expensive laptop, whenever DD asks for money he hands it over, will never tell her off. Prides himself on being a cool dad etc.
I was talking to one of her friends mums when we were waiting to pick them up at the station and she asked if I could have a word with her as my daughter told her daughter she should work out more and she is going to get fat and that obviously upset her daughter. I spoke to my girl and she apologised but the fact she said it all horrifies me. My husband said he didn't see the issue.
I don't know what to do, I feel like I have failed and ruined her!! It was all done is pure love and wanting nothing but the best for her and now she isn't a nice person!!
AIBU to feel like I don't like her? If she wasn't my daughter I wouldn't want to be her friend. What do I do? Can I make this better?

@Dixiechickonhols i agree with you actually and I’m not trying to say that teens shouldn’t work or that is is a bad thing.

But what I do find on these sorts of threads is firstly some posters can be very loud and pushy about teens working as soon as possible, regardless of what the job is or whether they need the money - the fact that they are working is some weird sign of a ‘good’ character. Actually, the world of work can be a brutal one and forcing a kid (because that’s what younger teens are) into it is not on, IMO.

For older teens, while I don’t think they shouldn’t work, I also don’t think that they necessarily should. I do know that it’s a major problem for the sixth formers at my
own school - anyone who thinks that KFC or the local pizza delivery place will respect your A levels and happily agree to your two shifts a week is living in la la land. They get pressured to take on additional shifts and work late, then they are tired, they don’t come to revision classes, they are late the next day, and so on. I get most of them have to - I don’t teach in a particularly affluent area - but I wouldn’t choose to do this to my
own children.

It is more that there’s this sort of mentality that work is a positive thing and means a well motivated young person while young people who don’t work are seen (on here - not in RL) as lazy. I don’t think that is true at all.

know it was with the very best of intentions but you have given your daughter everything she wanted but nothing of what she really needed.

"nothing "

Harsh

I’m in a pretty affluent area/DC at an academic state grammar and most of her peers are working but not many hours. It’s definitely seen as desirable by parents and facilitated eg parents picking up from shifts.
Theres a huge difference between working long hours to detriment of school and not working at all.
Before Uni they have 3 months off. To do no paid work is unusual in my area.
I have a recent graduate colleague who has difficult clients on phone, I was mentoring her and she was handling it really well. She said her retail experience especially during Covid (people arguing over loo roll etc!) had served her well. Interestingly she said she’d been asked more about retail experience/scenarios than her degree when applying for graduate roles. This is law so it’s competitive. I do think someone without paid work would be at a disadvantage.

The vitriol on this thread is astounding, all based on a few paragraphs the OP wrote and over-active imaginations from too many posters.

No-one is perfect, so why expect this girl to be, we all have character flaws.

Maybe some posters should reflect on actually why they have decided this girl is so awful and ruined. Is it because the OP describes her as being slim, attractive, blonde, flirty, sporty, popular, etc. Very active, always out and about, keeps fit.

She may have expectations of nicer clothes, fully funded summer of fun, etc but it was her parents who fostered this expectation by, until now, willingly providing her all this. Though let’s note, the OP hasn’t mentioned sun holidays with friends, their own car, etc. so she’s certainly a few tiers below most indulged 17th olds.

Teenagers come in all shapes and sizes, those with part time jobs, those without, those who spend all their time in their rooms, those who have a great social life, those who are lonely, those who have a great relationship with their parents, those that don’t, those who are giving, those who are more needy, those who are out partying every night, those that spend their time online gaming, etc. Most turn into fully functioning and personable adults.

.. the most indulged 17 year olds ….

Also interesting the OP hasn’t returned to this post. Hopefully because she’s absolutely horrified how her beloved daughter has been ripped to shreds here.

Maybe you need to calm down with expectations that others should do the same because your example is ridiculous. I would never allow my children to work waitressing jobs at 13 years old - they will need to study and bring good grades to set them on for successful work life first. Independence doesn’t have to be learned this way this early. Waitressing is for late teens max (and even then I wouldn’t want to expose my daughter to potential sexual harassment, thanks, there are other jobs for university students)

Tbh it would be unusual where I live to find a waitressing job for a 13 year old.

I wouldn't worry too much. Not many of us are at our best aged 17.

Let her go off to uni - it'll be the making of her - and await the young adult you'll get back.

Not all jobs for young teens have to be in a good chain or shop. Kids in my ds year group (all 14 years) walk neighbors dogs, mow lawns, babysit etc..

How can a child not want for anything unless you are millionaires? For example designer clothing for babies is one thing but when you get older clothing also becomes more expensive.

How has she done at school? Did she achieve good GCSE and AL? Does she work hard at anything?

Does till she help you with chores at home?
You must have had some boundaries when she was growing up?

On the contrary, I am a huge believer that nature trumps nurture anyway. And even as an adult in the late 40's, I am still changing so it's never too late in my opinion.

Not all jobs for young teens have to be in a good chain or shop. Kids in my ds year group (all 14 years) walk neighbors dogs, mow lawns, babysit etc..

Totally.

My ( elder ) teens worked as a museum guide, security guard ( after a course ) during uni, football coach, babysitters and play worker.

But I know loads that don't.

Not all jobs for young teens have to be in a good chain or shop. Kids in my ds year group (all 14 years) walk neighbors dogs, mow lawns, babysit etc..

Course not. Great to earn cash.

That’s definitely more reasonable and realistic as jobs for teens, I agree. But waitressing from 13 🙈 and paying lodge from 16! (Is it even legal to charge lodge to a 16 year old - aren’t parents responsible to provide for children until they are 18?)

MissyB1 · Yesterday 17:28
Some of these responses are odd! I was not spiteful or mean to my friends at 17, I would never have criticised their looks. And no way would I have out my mum down over her clothes. But I wasn’t a spoilt madam. Can we stop pretending all 17 year olds are like the OP’s daughter?!

OP, she will as others have said, learn the hard way. I have an acquaintance whose ds has had the corners rubbed of him at Uni, his first couple of terms in halls were very hard for him. He was spoilt and had a very high opinion of himself, and also a big gob! Let’s just say he’s learning to eat humble pie now.”

This. In our experience, most 17 year olds aren’t like this. Yes, OP, you have “spoiled” her. She sounds insufferable.

Hopefully, university will give her a taste of real life. Stop the allowance. If she wants to live the life she’s become accustomed to, she needs to work.

Your husband is a big part of the problem.

Some of these responses are odd! I was not spiteful or mean to my friends at 17, I would never have criticised their looks.

In all fairness, the way teenagers talk to each other is meant to be purposefully shocking to adult ears. And being full of shit of course.

I suspect that she is a nice person. Most popular people are nice. That's why they're popular in the first place.

Sounds like you resent her and don't like her very much though. Shame.

I think you need to reframe your thinking. You have a intelligent, confident, beautiful, popular daughter, you have succeeded, the opposite of failure. And, most importantly, she's happy. You really have hit the jackpot.

And she's 17. Most 17 year olds are narcissistic nightmares in my experience, even the unattractive unpopular ones.

Try to accept her as she is, no-one is infallible. So, she's not perfect but frankly she's got so much going on for her it kind of feels greedy to wish her weak aspects away.

Please don't become that parent that wishes their child to fail to teach them humility. Remember, her success is your success too.

Congratulations on raising one of life's winners. It's what every parent aims for and you and your husband have nailed it.

I was responding to your previous comment that it was ‘ normal’,
when it isn’t normal for everyone and isn’t even possible for a lot.
The rest is irrelevant.

This notion, supported by money-earning writers that 'teen brains are still developing' to excuse bad behaviour etc. sounds like hippy fairy nonsense to me. There are millions of well-adjusted teens worldwide who are kind, polite, generous, conscientious, empathetic, hardworking human beings.

Sorry, this doesn't wash with me.

Most writers earn money tbh.

I think you are majorly over dramatising to be honest. I don't have expectations that other people should 'force' their child to work at age 13 (god forbid) I merely mentioned my own experiences as a teen! You are taking what iv said and putting your own spin on it! The point of what I actually said was that I worked as a teenager because my mum wanted me to learn the value of earning my own money and to get a little taste of what it's like in the real world! P.s sexual harassment can happen at literally any age and anywhere! If you can't possibly trust that your teenager would be safe to do a bit of waitressing and your local pub a couple of evenings a week then how will you cope when they grow up and move out and grt a proper job in the big scary world? You can't keep them wrapped up in cotton wool forever!

What I mean is that someone comes up with a vague invalid theory, and writes books to propagate it, gets a cult following, earns a whack of money, and in the process, does severe damage, e.g. immature teen brains, to excuse appalling behaviour.

What exactly is so bonkers about serving people food at 13 years old? Jeeeeeez! I paid about £10 a month as a contribution at the age of 16 quick somebody call the police 🙄 stop fixating on my comments.

Oh so sexual harassment is part of life now to be expected, is it? I wouldn’t want my daughter to experience sexual harassment at THIRTEEN, no. I hope that if she encounters it, she is older and more equipped to handle it, and I certainly wont intentionally increase number of situations where she can be harassed as a literal CHILD.

As every woman I had my share of harassment but because I went to work in a law firm and not in a pub, i never experienced it in a workplace, you know? I had some babysitting jobs too when st high school but also in a safe environment. Intentionally exposing your child to an industry where its particularly bad is extremely irresponsible and sounds like parenting which cares more about money or ‘teaching the lesson’ rather than a child’s actual interests/safety. So maybe you need to reconsider this as an example of excellent parenting.
and as I say, there are plenty of people who did not start working at this age or started in their 20ies but they still have excellent work ethics and independence.

Of course sexual harassment shouldn't be expected as part of everyday life but in the same way you are saying that sexualising harassment automatically happens in pubs? It was perfectly safe to take on a couple of waitressing shifts in my local family pub/restaurant establishment. I lived to tell the tale without being subjected to harassment of any kind! And I made myself a bit of money and got a bit of work experience.

Just because you think it's wrong that a 13 year old can't do something like that it doesn't make it wrong! It's just your opinion. Why does working in a law firm exempt you from experiencing harassment?

My mum wasn't 'teaching me a lesson' you are literally being so OTT making my mum out to be a child labourer. FYI she never forced me to do anything I didn't want to do. Please get a grip and stop demonising everything I'm saying. I'm now in my 30s so it's been a long time since I was a teen and times have changed so it may seem strange to you but all my friends at the time had jobs at that age in one way or another including some that also waitressed at the same place as me! The POINT of my original post is that teenagers who behave spoilt and become lazy should learn the value of money instead of just being given money left right and centre. Peace out.

What exactly is so bonkers about serving people food at 13 years old?

How long ago was that?
Nobody in our day and age would legally employ a 13yo waitress.