Did we ruin daughter by spoiling

[Daringbear]

Hi,
First of all I'm going to be quite vulnerable and I know this is my own doing so please be nice, even if harsh.
My only daughter is 17, she is 18 at the start of August. She was an incredibly wanted child, my husband and I had been trying for 6 years, several miscarriages, failed IVF rounds, it was emotionally the hardest time of my life. When our daughter was born 5 weeks early, and so desperately wanted all we wanted to do was spoil her. We were 35 and 38 by the time she was born, we had 6 extra years of career advancement so were in a financially good place and could spoil her. We knew we wouldn't have more children so we really put it all into our girl. She was also 5 years younger than her closest in age cousin, of which she only has 3 and all boys, so being the only girl and youngest she was also massively spoilt by grandparents. My husband and I aren't massively social people, we had two close friends who were in similar positions and kids a little older. We live in a town where most people are comfortable financially, the house prices are much higher than the rest of the region, so all of daughters socialising have been with children similar to her.
She was also among the youngest in her year, I was terrified she would feel less than etc. so we pushed our financial limits for piano lessons, ballet, tennis, vocal coaching etc. The best schools in our area were state schools so there wasn't that but we did cripple ourselves financially to ensure she never had to struggle, tutors too from about year 5.
Now to the current point my daughter is due to start university in September and increasingly as I view her more and more as an adult I realise she isn't very likeable, she isn't lazy, she is always busy but never doing anything of worth, we told her to get a summer job, she looked for a day said they sounded boring and gave up, my husband still gives her, an allowance, refuses to stop and I find it impossible to be mad at her. So her summer has been spent shopping, enjoying the sun, playing sports, being with friends, going to the gym etc. nothing actually useful. She also has expensive taste and the only way I can describe it is she comes across snobby, she will talk down to me if she thinks my clothes are cheap etc.
She was very popular in school and sixth form, always had loads of friends and her reputation amongst them seems different than the girl I know. For the year book they got random people in the year to comment on the person and several of my daughters were about her being nice/friendly.
The other issue which is pretty new, she is a massive flirt!! She is very naturally pretty, tall, slim, blonde etc. and she is definitely not afraid to flaunt this. I hate it, she can come across very shallow. She will blatantly flirt with waiters etc. even Infront of me, it turns my stomach.
If I were to sum her up I'd use words like, smart, beautiful and eloquent but also shallow, snobby, stuck up and narcissistic. I hate that these are words I'd want to use.
My husband doesn't see it, still spoils her, has just bought her the most expensive tickets for Taylor Swift and a stupidly expensive laptop, whenever DD asks for money he hands it over, will never tell her off. Prides himself on being a cool dad etc.
I was talking to one of her friends mums when we were waiting to pick them up at the station and she asked if I could have a word with her as my daughter told her daughter she should work out more and she is going to get fat and that obviously upset her daughter. I spoke to my girl and she apologised but the fact she said it all horrifies me. My husband said he didn't see the issue.
I don't know what to do, I feel like I have failed and ruined her!! It was all done is pure love and wanting nothing but the best for her and now she isn't a nice person!!
AIBU to feel like I don't like her? If she wasn't my daughter I wouldn't want to be her friend. What do I do? Can I make this better?

The majority of kids don’t;
Have school on Saturday
Go to boarding school
Live in the sticks

Perhaps it’s a social background thing? I’m from a working class background and so is Dh. Despite having professional jobs ourselves, and being comfortable financially, we decided never to let our boys think everything will come to them on a plate. I would never set them up to believe that, it’s totally unfair because it’s totally unrealistic.

Perhaps it’s a social background thing? I’m from a working class background and so is Dh. Despite having professional jobs ourselves, and being comfortable financially, we decided never to let our boys think everything will come to them on a plate. I would never set them up to believe that, it’s totally unfair because it’s totally unrealistic.

Well done you👍🏻 Maybe it is.

But can I ask. Have you heard of stroppy teenagers or rude teenagers or ungrateful teenagers, as a concept ? ( I know yours are not)

Have you heard of teenagers who don't work?

Funnily enough, I was thinking about my 17 year old Ds last night. He's the 3rd of 4. He's finished college for summer so I've seen more of him and been taking him out practicing his driving every day.
His attitude stinks! He's arrogant, sarcastic, argumentative and selfish.
His brother went to pick him up from footie last night and he sent his mate over to say he didn't need him now because he was staying later. No thought for anyone else, no apology.
But, when I'm calm with him and pick my moments, he will acknowledge his behaviour and apologise (like last night - his selfish teenage self hadn't even thought it was an issue until it was pointed out)
He's not pleasant to be around some of the time but that's because he's 17. I didn't massively like the older two at that age either and dsd laughs now, 12 years on, when she thinks about the way she was (and she wasn't terrible - just 17 and selfish!)
Lay boundaries now for uni expectations re finances and speak to dh, she'll grow out of it, he has no such excuse...

Alright little miss sarky, no need to be so pissed off that my boys have had teenage jobs! It is!normal where I am!

Yes my boys have had their ups and downs, all teens do! The difference is they were never rewarded for bad behaviour. And thankfully showed no signs of spiteful behaviour to friends, and didn’t make nasty personal remarks to me. Op describes both of those situations, loads of posters then saying all teens do that! Nope! Sorry I know loads of teens, lots of sulking and moaning and arguing yeah all normal! Spiteful comments to their friends about how they look? Sneering at how their mum looks? Demanding box seat tickets for concerts? Refusing to acknowledge money has to be earned? No I don’t see that. I would be mortified and would come down like a ton of bricks if I saw any of that in mine. OP is right to be concerned. Good on her for recognising there is an issue! Everyone telling her to chill because it’s all “totally normal” is just odd.

I think you need to have a word with your DH. Redirect his focus from buying stuff for her to investing for her future.

Get him to see that giving her everything she asks for isn’t helping her grow as a person nor teaching her life skills.
He can invest some of the money towards a house deposit etc.
Constantly stepping in financially is infantilising your DD, part of your job as a parent is to help your child develop adult skills whilst providing a safety net.
We give DS1 a bit more than the student loan because accommodation is expensive at his Uni. However, we do expect him to earn some money for luxuries.
We are comfortably off and have made the conscious decision not to cover all costs and whims but by many people’s standards we would appear quite generous. However, both my DC have been regularly refused things or have had to earn the money to buy them and it’s amazing have much of a shock it is to them when they have to work days to get it.
Uni is a great opportunity to help her start to learn these skills. You need to understand why your DH is so generous, is he trying to keep her close or afraid that if he says no she will no longer be his friend?

There is a front page spread on the BBC News about teenagers being groped and subjected to racist and homophobia abuse whilst working in McDonalds. Useful life lesson. I’m sure they really thanked their parents for making them work there.

*Alright little miss sarky, no need to be so pissed off that my boys have had teenage jobs! It is!normal where I am!

Yes my boys have had their ups and downs, all teens do! The difference is they were never rewarded for bad behaviour. And thankfully showed no signs of spiteful behaviour to friends, and didn’t make nasty personal remarks to me. Op describes both of those situations, loads of posters then saying all teens do that! Nope! Sorry I know loads of teens, lots of sulking and moaning and arguing yeah all normal! Spiteful comments to their friends about how they look? Sneering at how their mum looks? Demanding box seat tickets for concerts? Refusing to acknowledge money has to be earned? No I don’t see that. I would be mortified and would come down like a ton of bricks if I saw any of that in mine. OP is right to be concerned. Good on her for recognising there is an issue! Everyone telling her to chill because it’s all “totally normal” is just od*

Yep mine have teenage jobs too. But so what ? Lots don't.

And you finally admit that "teens have their ups and downs. YEP.

Sneering at how mum looks ? Spiteful comments.? You clearly don't have girls😂

None of it is nice behaviour.
And yep I'd be down on it too.

But it's ridiculous to say it's not 'normal ' behaviour. Like this kid is something extraordinary. And this stuff doesn't happen.

It DOES happen regularly. And with GUIDANCE it will change.

But this girl is not RUINED or abnormal.

I know right?!

it’s totally not normal

It sounds like your dh has rose tinted glasses on as far as your dd goes. I think we are all well aware of our DC’s foibles, and really all you can do is point out where she’s gone wrong with her friend and maybe say you don’t like the flirting, makes you uncomfortable. Fine with boys at parties but not waiters with her parents.
Going to uni will be a bit of a culture shock, but also depends which uni/halls. Some have reputations for certain types of student.

it’s totally not normal

Its horrible behaviour.

But the fact it occurs? Not extraordinary or unusual.

Read the thread. If people want to pretend that teenagers aren't literally famous for being rude and generally anti social. Crack on.

Let's pretend teenagers always behave really well. No idea where Harry Enfield or Catherine Tate got their characters from. Socrates was complaining about teenagers 300 BC.

AND THATS NOT THE SAME as saying don't deal with It.

OP you are being extremely hard on yourself. I think the fact that you have one daughter means you have nothing to compare her to and you're super focused on her so probably notice more than most. I have 3 girls ranging in age from 11 to 16 and believe me each of them has traits of their personality that I find annoying or don't like, but they are still growing, developing, learning and what they are like now has no bearing on what adults they will become. Girls can also be b**es. It is survival of the fittest in the teenage years and they can do and say things that are just awful but they mature wise up and change. Yeah you may have spoilt her slightly but she really doesn't sound that bad she has been so lucky to have two loving attentive parents and that will stand to her. You mentioned that she was very popular at school and that can give someone a sense of superiority but the school world is a very small place and as others have said she will continue to grown and develop in uni and will no doubt graduate as a well loved, secure woman.

OP you are being extremely hard on yourself. I think the fact that you have one daughter means you have nothing to compare her to and you're super focused on her so probably notice more than most. I have 3 girls ranging in age from 11 to 16 and believe me each of them has traits of their personality that I find annoying or don't like, but they are still growing, developing, learning and what they are like now has no bearing on what adults they will become. Girls can also be bes. It is survival of the fittest in the teenage years and they can do and say things that are just awful but they mature wise up and change. Yeah you may have spoilt her slightly but she really doesn't sound that bad she has been so lucky to have two loving attentive parents and that will stand to her. You mentioned that she was very popular at school and that can give someone a sense of superiority but the school world is a very small place and as others have said she will continue to grown and develop in uni and will no doubt graduate as a well loved, secure woman.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 So compassionate and so true.

I don’t think she’s being hard on herself I think she’s being hard on her DD. It’s normal for teens to be self-obsessed and a bit up themselves. She will grow up soon enough.

OP says she’s not a nice person yet she’s apparently very popular and her friends say she is.

So many bitter and jealous people on this thread, wishing some sort of comeuppance and saying that people “will look down on her if she has money and no student loans” 🙈
thats just display of your own insecurities about well off / good looking / popular people, sorry.
I went to a very posh uni (in a different country) where some people drove Ferraris. I was one of few really poor students on scholarships so didn’t belong with them at all (and was jealous), but guess what, lots of them had a great time, then had families, built careers (including those where they needed to work hard) and turned out to be absolute normal pleasant people. With a nice life without major problems.

Despite not having had McDonalds or student loans experience. All had only relevant experience / internships relevant to their careers in later student years.

Yeah life is not fair and some people can be more good looking/financially secure/have easier life than others. And because life is not fair, it doesn’t mean there is automatically some comeuppance coming. That’s just life. Id hope that grown up people would learn this lesson but looks like some are stuck in imaginary universe of reckoning

OP says she’s not a nice person yet she’s apparently very popular and her friends say she is.

Sound like OP is jealous of her own daughter and wants to find faults in everything.

McDonald’s is a huge employer though. Yes it’s awful but it’s not a reason for thousands of teens not to work there.
Mine started at 16 after GCSE and works 4 to 6 hours a week on average alongside A levels.
It pays well and has done her world of good in terms of dealing with public and navigating hr/swapping shifts/dealing with managers/her sorting it when they paid her wrong amount. She has a physical disability and lots of teen colleagues who work in kitchen have Autism.
She still has plenty of time to study (3A star predicted) volunteer, dance, gym, work experience, driving lessons and for socialising too.

Yes of course all kids have their faults, and the teen years are never a walk in the park. But the fact is OP should be supported for recognising something is wrong, and encouraged to address it (with her husband as well as daughter). We can all make mistakes with our parenting but recognising that and trying to put it right is the most important thing. Posters telling OP she is the problem and her dd is just a typical teen aren’t helpful. Parents are the ones who truly know their kids, OP knows something has gone wrong. Quite why she’s being villified for admitting that I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

But the fact is OP should be supported for recognising something is wrong, and encouraged to address it

no mother should be encouraged to have the horrible attitude she has in her OP.

I am all for not allowing my kids not to become little brats, and to tell them if they are if they are behaving like a brat, but the OP's writing is nasty.

OP knows something has gone wrong. Quite why she’s being villified for admitting that I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

I suppose It's question of degree isn't it?

"Gone wrong " a sense of, this is parr for the course relative to other teens ( and OP only has the one ) . Be firmer. Re think financial values. DH probably playing a big party here.

"Gone wrong" Ruined. Abnormal. Unusual. Out of step with other teens. Shallow, Narcissistic. Spoilt for the long term.

I'd say OP is leaning, unnecessarily to the last one.

But the fact is OP should be supported for recognising something is wrong, and encouraged to address it

But nothing has gone wrong. She overheard some teens' conversation and overreatcted.
Sad when parents don't appreciate how good they have it with their kids. There are plenty of teens who do drugs, have careless sex, get involved in crime, etc. This one goes to a gym and enjoys a wholesome life.

Sadly I agree.

I think it can be easy to think you are the centre of a charmed life if you are 17, attractive, and have had plenty of advantages and a bit of a spotlight up to then. There's no alternative experience she has to compare it to. Getting a bit fed up with it on your side is probably healthy, as you will both need to handle her leaving home and realising she's not 12 any more. Being supportive but straight talking and patient is hopefully something that will be appreciated in the end, even if it doesn't have instant results.

All kinds of experiences can grind down the corners and make change, one way or another, and that may not always be in ways that you will take on board as positive.

My Mum did not demand that I work from age 13! I did a couple of evening waitresses shifts to earn some pocket money and there's nothing wrong with that! If anything it sets a precedent for learning to be a little bit more independent at that age and learn the value of earning your own money to buy the things you want. I was happy to do it! It's not slave labour and if anything I think too many parents these days are too soft with letting their children learn these values aswell as things like doing their own basic house chores etc. So calm down!

OP, you sound lovely and I wish you were my mum! Don't be too hard on yourself. You've raised a confident girl who feels loved and secure, and she just needs to learn to be more self-aware. That will come with time and with closer interaction with others when she's at university.

Yes, she'll have some tough times when her behaviour might be called out in. She might not get her way for the first time. But that's a good thing and all part of growing up.

Do definitely guide her on the right direction, but don't vest yourself up. I think she's been extremely lucky with her parents and that's something wonderful 🙂

I know it was with the very best of intentions but you have given your daughter everything she wanted but nothing of what she really needed. I do get why you have done what you did. My husband and I could so easily have been the same with our DCs. Money is no object and we could have showered them with everything that caught their eye. But we didn't because we knew it wouldn't be doing them any favours. So, they have always been expected to have part time jobs and pay their own way (a bit). We're generous with them but not silly about it.

The result is that they are level headed, hard working and know their own worth. And that's worth far more than the latest laptop or an expensive pair of trainers.