Farm inheritance - ILs should give farm to DH now

[farmerswife7]

I'll start by saying I know inheritance is never guaranteed not an entitlement etc and that we are very very lucky with what we do have now and what my DH will inherit.

I will also state I am not from a farming background and my mum rents so inheritance isn't something I have ever considered. I have always stayed out of what is said in DHs family as it didn't seem like my business.

We met with a solicitor recently to get our wills drawn up, mainly in order to have guardianship set out for DC.

We rent our house from ILs at a very reasonable rate. Both ILs are in their late 70s, they live in the main farm house, we live in a smaller older one.

DH works a lot on their farm. Thankfully FIL is still very fit/ active but understandably is slowing down. DH does not get a wage for this, but as I said we have lower rent.

I originally wanted to buy our own house. But this would have an impact on DH's inheritance tax, there is a farm relief scheme, we are in Ireland. So we didn't buy a house. DH also said there is no point as we will eventually inherit the whole farm and will need to live in the main farm house.

Now the solicitor brought it up when we went in and said about it being better for them to sign it over to DH now in case they end up in nursing homes a lot of the land could end up going in fees.

My DH went with my ILs about a year ago to see an accountant who advised that they sign it all over to DH now. They agreed. But then MIL when to a solicitor who advised against it so they didn't.

I'm a little worried about our financial future now. 1st and foremost I do not want ILs to end up in nursing homes. I genuinely do love them and want them around for as long as possible. DH says "they wouldn't go to one ever" but my uncle is currently in one suffering with Alzheimer's I don't think he thought he would go for one.

I mostly just wanted to vent my frustration.

AIBU to want my ILs to give the farm to DH now? They would still live in the main farm house and receive the farm income btw.

It's house built on farming land - highly likely that the two cannot be separated. As a PP have said the law around it and property rights are archaic

What's the rush? The rush is they only have a limited amount of time where they can get a mortgage to buy a house of their own. If they leave it another 10 years then that option will not be on the table to the same degree.

Buy your own house. If it needs a bit of work you and your husband need to put your spare time into doing it up instead of working for free for you in-laws. 200 quid a month of the market rent is pittance for what you're providing.

Then move into the house and let your in-laws deal with the hassle of renegade tennants that cannot be legally evicted from the house they so graciously let you pay to do up the bathrooms in 😂

Also MIL asked after we got married, that when her or FIL dies can they live with us so unless they are in very bad health and I can't cope with it they are very unlikely to go to a nursing home

I'm sorry, but this is such a naive comment. I can see why you would say it, because until my own parents got old, I would have said the exact same! It's so easy to say "Oh, I'd never put my Dad in a home", as if it's only neglectful children that would do so, but the reality can be very different than what you imagine. My Dad is in one, he has no mobility at all, needs a hospital bed, wears a nappy, and he weighs 22 stone, so can only be moved with hoists and slip sheets. Reckon you can take that on? And work full time? And have any kind of life? I would never have imagined that this would have happened to us, but here we are.

The farm that her in-laws own is none of her business.

If they leave it to the local cat shelter, it’s none of her business.

I can't believe you've been so naive, OP. Why is your husband working for nothing when he's only getting a small discount on rent? Why are you assuming his siblings will just accept him inheriting the farm? What will you do in the future if you each get 1/3 of the farm?

It’s the knee-jerk response from a certain kind of MNer to absolutely any thread about inheritance, no matter how nuanced. They are by default greedy, grabby, and entitled.

I can definitely see why you thinking about the situation, I would be the same.

To put it bluntly I can't see both your DH siblings saying 'oh no worries you keep hold of a million pound property we don't want anything! '

Even if they were helped out by Pil to build their own houses, surely this was a while ago and in Ireland it wouldn't have been that expensive?
How old will you both be if your Pil live till their late eighties? Will you still be living in their smaller house while they are in the main house?

OP I think you are getting some pretty poor posts here from people who don't understand the complexity of farming inheritances.

The farm is a business which ultimately your DH has invested a lot of money in through the contribution of his labour.

Often selling parts of land off to compensate non farming siblings can't be done as it would make the commercial running of the farm non viable (and in this case it sounds like the siblings have already been given sizeable inheritance's your DH did not).

You need to sit down with your DH first and agree a plan because the current situation is not tenable for you.

Ideally get legal advice from a specialist in this area. Options may include a partnership and a right for in laws to remain in the main farmhouse for life. But ultimately you need assurances that your family won't be left with no home after decades of promises and hard work. That's not unreasonable.

This isn't an unusual situation in the farming community and a good solicitor should be able to put forward a number of options to protect everyone's interests.

Agree a plan and then speak to the in laws. If they won't compromise then I'd look to leave the farm, buy your own place and your DH find employment that pays a wage.

This is best sorted 7 years before they pass, so as soon as you can. They could also retire and claim the farmers pension. Go to a specialised solicitor.

No, there are people on this thread, me included, who are familiar with such scenarios.

At the end of the day, the farm owners took legal advice and have decided that they do not want to gift their business to their son.

No amount of “I want, I want” from the OP will change that.

Jenny you need to wise up very quickly.

You are being taken advantage of and don’t even realise it.

Your low rent is a joke, 200 a month less than market rate is nothing. And it sounds to me to be a house other women would not live in.

I’d be putting my foot down now as regards getting up to a modern standard, that’s if I’d even be willing to live in it. Your home of the future you might never see. You should have insisted that your hubby be gifted a site and then you put it in both your names and build a new house.

If you were doing that you’d be gaining ownership of a house and there is no legal reason this can’t be done. Indeed there is no reason your current house couldn’t be gifted to your husband and him to transfer it freely into both your names.

Google ‘hello divorce bye bye daddy” to understand the Irish patriarchal view of women marrying into the family farm.

The lies, semi truths, you are being told is to prevent you owning anything. Because the aim is to keep the farm in the family, PIL to your husband, not you, and then to your children.

You are not building any asset in your name for your children in the future. You are maybe covering unsustainable things e.g. food/ clothing for children, school uniforms etc. Therefore you may have little say over the bigger asset issues eg a better reliable car. The asset in a way is being held over your head because your husband's elderly parents (as in many farming households) have full say over the asset your husband is working on. You are waiting on the behaviour or expectation of somebody else to secure your lives in the future. You are in a difficult position. It is to do with you as it affects you and the lives of your children (people saying "it is none of your business" don't understand it affects your lives and livelihood/secure future) Plus women in a farming situation who do housework/child care/ jobs connected to the farm eg driving for medications to vet/ collecting a farm related products or cooking for others are seen as "not working". And you are not being "grabby" you are trying to secure the welfare of your children. The expectation is being directed to you to look after the needs of everybody else e.g. if sick/unwell/widowed. And yes your husband and you need to have a discussion with them about the farm/inheritance/ future expectations. But if your in laws need a lot of care you will be left to do the major part of it without minimal help from most. Even if the house you are currently in was secured to you it protects you and the children. It does not have to be the whole farm at this point.

There are genuine reasons to put the farm in your husbands name. Totally legit estate planning. Five benefits. No tax, avoids care home fees, ensures succession, keeps the farm in the male name. For your husband and his family, there is the added benefit of giving you no rights. And they are all terrified of that.

The two siblings appear to have been bought off. Generally a site, cash towards a house, an education. BUT they can dispute a will. Section 117. Your hubby and his parents will be keen to do this to avoid that.

Your MIL is not on your phone side. But she’s not stupid, she went to a solicitor and knows she’s signing over all rights, and is fearful of her son dumping her in a nursing home. I imagine nothing is in her name either. BUT she has to sign off on it. Particularly the house she lives in. Due to ‘the family home protection act’ . Google it and why. Brought in to prevent men, particularly farmers from disinheriting their wives.

But it IS their business. Literally and metaphorically. And the OP’s DH works on the family farm for no wage, hence the reduced accommodation costs. Why should they be grateful?

Do you really think £200pm is fair recompense for working 3 or 4 days per week on the farm?

OP must go to a solicitor. Not near the town she lives in. She will be seen. Go to one in a city. She can also pose a question on somewhere like boards.ie or askaboutmoney.ie

If she pm’s me her county I can recommend one in Galway. Or Limerick.

She can also google the question as it’s discussed in some of the personal money pages of Irish newpapers.

My BIL and one of my brothers are farmers. BIL’s wife owns zero. House never transferred into her name. But she does have legal rights. Known as the ‘spouse legal right share’. Circumvented by your in-laws and husband currently. And it’s why your MIL is declining to sign. She’d be signing away her rights in favour of her son, being left with him having financial power over her. Jenny is an exact copy of her MIL.

Think we’re at cross purposes, @Lacucuracha. I was trying to reply to (and thought I had!) @PlasticSheetingRTÉNews who said:
‘You can “want” them to do things all you like, but it’s not your decision.
Mind your own business and be very thankful that you’re benefiting from reduced accommodation cost.’

He’s not working for nothing. He’s been promised the farm.

His mother though has seen sense, and is refusing to sign. They will cajole and badger her now. And her age is against her to fight it. So likely they will have to do something legal to get her to sign. Mother probably wants son to inherit, and Jenny to have no rights, but MIL will be afraid of being turfed out by son and Jenny if hubby goes first.

I’d say MIL going to a solicitor put the cat amongst the pigeons. Son will be raging at her, as will her husband who wants to ensure the family farm in the family name and no woman getting a slice, never mind an English woman.

I’m on Jenny’s side in this as I know full well what goes on. Jenny is clearly lovely, and touchingly naive. My in-laws wife lived in horrendous circumstances, had to be grateful ‘he’ put in a new kitchen for her, with one bathroom, accessible only via the kitchen. And I bet he’s disinherited her as much as he can in his will. Already very expensive sites given to the children. Who live in amazing mansions.

OP, some very unhelpful responses in this thread....

I agree with all who suggest that you have been naive and need to work out with your DH how to sort this out so you're not left with nothing. You're not being grabby or entitled.

Ah sorry DMLady! 😊

Sorry if you thought I was saying/ thinking people that go to nursing homes are only there because they have neglectful children. I don't think that at all, and I've only seen recently the struggle some of my family had with the decision to send my uncle (their dad) and that he 100% needed to go to one.

I mentioned to DH there about not having any assets in my name. He said i knew you'd bring this up after the solicitors. That if something were to happen to him I'd have nothing. He said it has been discussed and I'd never be left struggling and could live in this house rent free.

I can actually see from my ILs POV that it wouldn't be nice their son owning their house.

Other siblings really are OK with this AFAIK. They are not being left out of the will. ILs have other assets..no not worth as much (at least on paper) but far more liquid.

I think I need to seriously look into buying an investment property or something!

I really feel for you @farmerswife7 .

I'm in England but my auntie was also told she'd 'never be left struggling and could live in this house rent free'. They kicked her out after he died in such a brutal way, they had zero interest in her and made her life miserable. She'd trusted them for years, being made homeless and suffering grief and betrayal was so much to cope with.

This sounds like a nightmare.

IF they need care home, what then becomes of the property you currently rent and the land/buildings from which your DH runs his contracting business from? Because if they go, renting a suitable site for such a biz is not cheap (I know how much space agri-plant takes up, and how secure it has to be given how rife theft of such kit is), on top of renting something to live in.

Is your DH keen to sort this out? It sounds driven by you, with him being rather reluctant (that could just be the way you've written your posts though).

You would be allowed to live in the house rent free if something happened to your husband so therefore your children would not get an asset from your husband's years of work it would go to "blood family"? Not acceptable to many.

Do not make decisions based on somebody's "word" or "promise". It must be on paper legally to be effective.