Farm inheritance - ILs should give farm to DH now

[farmerswife7]

I'll start by saying I know inheritance is never guaranteed not an entitlement etc and that we are very very lucky with what we do have now and what my DH will inherit.

I will also state I am not from a farming background and my mum rents so inheritance isn't something I have ever considered. I have always stayed out of what is said in DHs family as it didn't seem like my business.

We met with a solicitor recently to get our wills drawn up, mainly in order to have guardianship set out for DC.

We rent our house from ILs at a very reasonable rate. Both ILs are in their late 70s, they live in the main farm house, we live in a smaller older one.

DH works a lot on their farm. Thankfully FIL is still very fit/ active but understandably is slowing down. DH does not get a wage for this, but as I said we have lower rent.

I originally wanted to buy our own house. But this would have an impact on DH's inheritance tax, there is a farm relief scheme, we are in Ireland. So we didn't buy a house. DH also said there is no point as we will eventually inherit the whole farm and will need to live in the main farm house.

Now the solicitor brought it up when we went in and said about it being better for them to sign it over to DH now in case they end up in nursing homes a lot of the land could end up going in fees.

My DH went with my ILs about a year ago to see an accountant who advised that they sign it all over to DH now. They agreed. But then MIL when to a solicitor who advised against it so they didn't.

I'm a little worried about our financial future now. 1st and foremost I do not want ILs to end up in nursing homes. I genuinely do love them and want them around for as long as possible. DH says "they wouldn't go to one ever" but my uncle is currently in one suffering with Alzheimer's I don't think he thought he would go for one.

I mostly just wanted to vent my frustration.

AIBU to want my ILs to give the farm to DH now? They would still live in the main farm house and receive the farm income btw.

How many hours does DH work on the farm each week?

Do they need the rent they charge DH to live on?

He really does not draw a wage from the farm. But that is not to say we do not benefit from it, DH uses their sheds for fixing stuff. Their land for parking his machines. If he was not married to me he would possibly still live with them or maybe rent this house with friends. It is not really encompassed in the main farm. Its stand alone. They used to rent it out before.

@Tryingtokeepgoing DH will have to farm the land for 7 years or he will have to pay inheritance tax. At present it would pan out at zero tax. He also had to do a certificate in farming, he did that about 20 years ago tho I'm not sure you need it now.

@ClawedButler he's working for deferred benefit I suppose. He doesn't financially get anything now but will eventually.

I can't really say Hi ILs, lets sit down and ask about inheritance. I really don't think I could. It's been hard enough renting from them. Any thing I have wanted to change up until very recently has been veto'd. When we originally moved in 10 years ago I wanted to re decorate the whole house. With my own money (well mine and DH). The bathrooms were completely outdated. The lay out of the house is terrible. It is a fantastic plot and a big enough sized house but we weren't allowed. I got my bathrooms done 2 yrs ago after a pipe went and there was zero choice, we split the costs. I still have tonnes of that frost/ pattern glass all over the house though and no chance of removing it or knocking through 1 wall to make better living space.

Sorry I am ranting I don't like complaining about this IRL as I said we are incredibly lucky to have low rent and lets face it a very stable place to live.

You might not be able to rock up to the IL's but presumably you can talk to your DH who can do so.

His siblings might have zero interest in the farm but I reckon they have a interest in money.

Why should you pressure them into handing it over? If they need care they need care way the cookie crumbles. It's their property not yours or DH they can do as they see fit. If the whole lot goes on care home fees so be it that's the risk you've taken and should of known you've taken since day dot.

Stop being greedy and stand on your own two feet

The siblings might not be interested now, but there's nothing like a death in the family to bring out the worst in people.

My husband stayed on the family croft and cared for first his grandmother and then both his parents. He built a new house when the old one became unstable and worked the land on his own for many years. He had four surviving siblings and none of them showed any interest in the croft. However, the old people weren't cold in their graves before the oldest sibling tried to turf my husband out (aided and abetted by two of the others). They didn't know that the croft had been signed over years ago, or that extra land had been bought by my husband and had never belonged to his father. I understand completely why their father hadn't told them, but it was a difficulty time for us.

Two of the worst things for good family relations are inheritance and land. Combining the two can be a nightmare. You aren't wrong at all to want to secure your future. I think your ILs are taking diabolical advantage of your husband, but I know this isn't uncommon. I think it may come to you leaving the farm and not providing free labour any more, so that you can build your own future.

I know you are in Ireland but farms do not attract inheritance tax in england I believe.. you need specialist help from a land management type company, in england we have Carter Jonas many others available

he has 2 siblings. They are not interested in the farm.

They will be very interested in the money the farm could generate, I guarantee it.

It all sounds like a disaster in slow motion, honestly.

I grew up on a farm in Scotland so understand the issues if not the tax law in Ireland. I'd be very concerned your PILs are taking advantage of your DH but not securing his future, slightly cheaper than average rent while expecting him to work for the family business for free is taking the piss. You would not be the first in this position.

Your DH's contracting business, is that linked to farming or completely separate? Would he be able to continue his contracting business if the farm was sold from under him, does he use the farm buildings or land? Is there a plan for him to take over the running of the farm business at some point? When my DBro went home to farm after university my parents handed over a share of the farm at that point and DDad, DM and DBro were all equal partners in the business.

I think you and your DH need to talk to a solicitor to work out what you need to do to secure your future. But also to prepare for a discussion about your PILs financially recognising the contribution by your DH to the family business. Either he needs a share of the business or he needs to be paid for his work at the going rate. It may be that you might need to move out of the cottage but not having your DH at their beck and call may make your PILs realise how much the business relies on him.

@Lacucuracha it would depend on when they have silage that sort of stuff. I would guess half is work day would be farm related. But some days less some days more. Some weeks its 6 days some 7 (but that's not too common).

There is a will I have not seen it or been present. DH and his sister were with ILs at the solicitors. The farm is going to DH. SIL + BIL are 'looked after' they also both received approx €400k each when an uncle died who left DH out of the will, we don't know why. DH was an early teen at the time so not like he had done anything to really piss off the uncle.

DH works as a contractor. That's where his cash comes from. He does well at it as well. We know a lot of lads around here that work on their family farms and also work for themselves.

I don't think they are dependant on it. DH pays the rent in cash, (it is through the books though I have needed rent proof before) but sometimes they have gone months without looking for it.

I am half thinking of buying a small house by myself. I know from a marital POV it would still be half my DH's if we ever split (which I think is highly unlikely). I was looking at the figures. I know I would have to pay income tax on rent, but I think it would just about cover itself over as in the rent paying the mortgage. I just couldn't handle getting some really shitty renters in. Would break my heart. I wouldn't be able to buy a house big enough for us all to move to now.

If your DH is 100% getting the farm from the will then whats the rush in signing it over to him now? They clearly don't want to right now and you can't force them.

You must write a long list of questions and speak to a solicitor again to get all the info. before making any further decisions about your financial future. Just hoping everything will be ok is far too risky.

In Ireland the laws around wills and trusts are very different from English law so you must not assume anything based on heresay on here.

In many rural areas, it is ingrained in the psyche that you hold onto land at any cost partly due to the history of Catholics not being allowed to own land until Ireland became independent of the UK, about 100 years ago. This also applies to Protestant families in that they hold onto their land fiercely too and the deeply religious won't allow someone not of their faith to inherit their precious land. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Even selling parcels of land to adult DC to build their own homes on can become a fraught situation and there are strict planning laws around this too.

It's also one of the reasons for the higher than average suicide rates amongst younger farmers who fall into debt trying to balance the books and can't see a way out because of the pressures to not sell any land. I've sadly seen this happen too often around here and it's utterly heartbreaking. ☹️

Although you say his siblings aren't interested in farming, they will likely be interested in their potential inheritance. There's no easy solution here and I think your DH needs to have some frank discussions with his parents and get things in writing. Verbal promises from his family have no legal standing.

Again, I've seen adult DC spend years farming their parents land (and not being paid for it) for a couple of hours before and after their other full time jobs and every weekend, to end up with nothing because another sibling (uninterested in the farm) inherited the lot.

Where I live, farming is mostly cattle and sheep based rather than crops, and incredibly hard physical work with very long hours and a never ending list of essential repairs to keep things ticking over. I have four good friends who are farmers wives and they're permanently exhausted themselves trying to do everything, especially the cooking big meals at antisocial hours because the silage men have turned up and will need feeding at 10pm etc....

Your DH needs to stand up to his parents and press them for a proper solution now that's legally watertight or be prepared to walk away. Care home fees are expensive and depending where you live, finding reliable carers to call in is nigh impossible. You don't want this hanging over your marriage for the next 10/20 years.

Best of luck OP.

The farm is going to DH. SIL + BIL are 'looked after' they also both received approx €400k each when an uncle died who left DH out of the will, we don't know why.

They got €400k because your DH is going to be given a farm. This type of arrangement is not uncommon. Equalisation across the wider family.

OP you sound lovely. But remember your PIL have benefited from having you as tenants. It is probably worth the small reduction to have reliable tenants who take good care of the house and don’t insist on it being updated etc.

they also benefit from having your husband on site and working the farm

ignore the folks on here who are saying it’s none of your business. Farm inheritances are different - your husband has invested decades and his own money into the business. Of course you have an interest in it and of course you want to Protect your future and that if your children.

it is also a really delicate subject - some of my friends are farmers wives and I couldn’t sleep at night knowing my future was so dependent on what my future in laws decide to do with their will.

Farming is very different OP it's not a normal inheritance so I understand why you feel entitled. You will get a lot of posts saying you're grabby on here
You're better off seeing a specialist solicitor or land agency

Your DH needs to engage with the areas that impact on any inheritance; Tax
Agricultural Relief (revenue.ie) If he is under 40 then he needs to secure a Green Cert which helps reduce tax burden - Teagasc facilitate some advisors.

But I would be very much looking for alternatives as his siblings may change their minds - it is very common for people to want to retire "home".

OP you sound lovely. But remember your PIL have benefited from having you as tenants. It is probably worth the small reduction to have reliable tenants who take good care of the house and don’t insist on it being updated etc.
They have benefited from cheap rent for many years too

ignore the folks on here who are saying it’s none of your business. Farm inheritances are different - your husband has invested decades and his own money into the business

He's chosen to do this wasn't asked to do it. He elected this in hopes of getting a big pay day one day.

I've definitely read this before!

I'm hearing lots pf benefits for him (he gets to use the land and its sheds fir doing cars and fixing stuff, he would be living there regardless without you) but not many benefits for you.

Do you like living there? Do you pay all the rent?

I think it's a worry that your (and your children's?) entire housing situation and future is at the discretion of two people with whom you don't feel you can have a straight conversation. At the end of the day it sounds like your husband won't have an open chat with his parents about it all. It's not unreasonable for you to want to know how they intend to secure the farm passing to your husband, without it being completely eroded by any care fees or indeed other unexpected costs. A government could change the law on inheritance tax for example.

It's not at all grabby - this is a family business in which your husband works unpaid and into which you say he invests a lot. Really you (both) need to hear out what your ILs fears are if they were to hand over ownership, and work out ways to alleviate them.

@JaninaDuszejko we lived abroad for a few years (actually where we met). When we moved here there was talk of a partnership being formed but it never happened.

I do think farming inheritance is a bit of a minefield!

I'll have to talk to DH later on.

I suppose some (all?) of the reason I would like it signed over now is yes the security. DH is working there for free, someone said up thread that's a risk he should have know about. But he has worked like this on the farm for decades (apart from a short while when he lived abroad)

He could be putting his time to better use. He is very talented in another area and I think could do really well if he put 100% of his time into it.

I am hoping my ILs live for decades to come so what is to stop them for saying in 10 years time actually we will split it 3 ways.

I am starting to feel a bit stupid and trusting about all this.

You should absolutely go ahead with buying your own place. I'd even be looking at moving into it. Let his parents then have to deal with tenants that may well be less than ideal and all the hassle that goes along with it.... They'll realise then the value of what they had.

At the end of the day you're in a vunerable situation here. You should have bought years ago as you said in hindsight but it's not too late to rectify that.

The could go senile and change the will. Your husband could divorce you. You just never know what the future could hold. Secure your and your children's future.

200 euro a month off the rent for working maybe 6 half days a week isn't much is it. 16 euro per day I work it out at - if you'd work for that I wouldn't.

And I don't think there's any need to make it sound like OP's husband is being grabby. Farming families generally want to pass on the farm in one piece, so by having helped out their other children earlier (and not OP's husband) they have tried to balance this out over the years.

Op, what if your husband dies tomorrow or in the very near future? What then? You have no home of your own, and it's clear to me your in-laws don't want you to think the house you're living in is yours. They wouldn't even let you make improvements with your money.

We're in the situation although FIL has a property in Ireland and is just about to buy one in the north (just sold in England). Ireland one in the process of being transferred to his 2 sons and the new one will be bought in their name (mainly to stoop his new partner claiming).
If he needs care we will sell up to pay for it if it goes beyond what is and his sister's can support.
It's nice to have it secured but does mean if we move we'll be stung for stamp duty as we technically own 3 houses. The one in Ireland will never be sold as it's the family holiday home in the village where MIL grew up and they built it together.

By having reduced rent all these years you could have saved up and tried to buy your own property perhaps? Either way, you have no right to inherit early and it is never a good idea for people to hand over their homes before they are ready in order to avoid tax. I’ve seen it in my family and it turns out very ugly!

i do see the difficulty though as farms are usually inherited and there’s often a difficult period when the old farmer doesn’t want to stop yet the young one it chomping at the bit.