Farm inheritance - ILs should give farm to DH now

[farmerswife7]

I'll start by saying I know inheritance is never guaranteed not an entitlement etc and that we are very very lucky with what we do have now and what my DH will inherit.

I will also state I am not from a farming background and my mum rents so inheritance isn't something I have ever considered. I have always stayed out of what is said in DHs family as it didn't seem like my business.

We met with a solicitor recently to get our wills drawn up, mainly in order to have guardianship set out for DC.

We rent our house from ILs at a very reasonable rate. Both ILs are in their late 70s, they live in the main farm house, we live in a smaller older one.

DH works a lot on their farm. Thankfully FIL is still very fit/ active but understandably is slowing down. DH does not get a wage for this, but as I said we have lower rent.

I originally wanted to buy our own house. But this would have an impact on DH's inheritance tax, there is a farm relief scheme, we are in Ireland. So we didn't buy a house. DH also said there is no point as we will eventually inherit the whole farm and will need to live in the main farm house.

Now the solicitor brought it up when we went in and said about it being better for them to sign it over to DH now in case they end up in nursing homes a lot of the land could end up going in fees.

My DH went with my ILs about a year ago to see an accountant who advised that they sign it all over to DH now. They agreed. But then MIL when to a solicitor who advised against it so they didn't.

I'm a little worried about our financial future now. 1st and foremost I do not want ILs to end up in nursing homes. I genuinely do love them and want them around for as long as possible. DH says "they wouldn't go to one ever" but my uncle is currently in one suffering with Alzheimer's I don't think he thought he would go for one.

I mostly just wanted to vent my frustration.

AIBU to want my ILs to give the farm to DH now? They would still live in the main farm house and receive the farm income btw.

Rural Devon here and if your in-laws are like my friends in-laws, there's no need for you to worry because apparently they will live for ever and ever and never need a day off sick.
It's a bloody nightmare. No one talks to anyone and least of all to the dil who is carrying the mental load of the kids and home.
My parents in law are not farmers but also think they will live for ever. So whilst we're all busting a gut here doing their diy and taxiing, the will is a crappy multiple property nightmare. They'd rather take up our time when we should be grieving than simplifying stuff now.

You are clearly replying based on zero knowledge about the issues around farming in Ireland, as all of your posts amply demonstrate. Hopefully, the OP will ignore your unhelpful posts.

It's rare for adult sons to have any real choice about working on the family farm as they'll have been doing it since they were about 6yrs old. As his parents are now elderly, he knows they won't be able to manage the physical side of farming for much longer but they definitely won't stop trying. Animals still need feeding and mucking out daily, particularly during the cold winter months.

Serious farm accidents are also very common in the older age groups as people become more frail and less sure on their feet.

I think you need to be careful here.
Farmers tend to think differently about inheritance too.

I know this is from the UK, not Ireland, but a little cautionary tale about someone I knew. The DH's parents owned the farm, but had retired and lived in a bungalow, eventually mil passed away and fil went into a home after living for a while with my friend caring for him. The DH and wife worked full time on the farm- built up the herd and extended the house. However (there was a complicated business partnership set up I think) they did not own the house, the "farm" did.
They had several daughters and a son.
It turns out the farm was left directly to the son, bypassing the DH. He passed away shortly afterwards, my widowed friend then went to live in a static caravan while her son and partner lived in what had been her home. The money which should have built a small bungalow- never happened, but a super delux milking parlor did.

This was a few years ago and my friend has also died, but be careful.

This is very wrong what you are suggesting
why should the state pick up the cost of a care home for 2 people with enough money to pay for it .
where do you think the money for their care will come from if they don’t pay it themselves
there isn’t a never ending pot of money .
why should you have the money that needs to pay for their care ???

'Mind your own business'?

It is her business. Her family, her future.

One thing which didn't occur to me before is that I do know of some cases where the husband has died, the wife signs the farm/croft over to the son (or even both are still living but sign it all over), and he then kicks her out. Perhaps your MIL is worried about that?

It's easy enough to fix, I would think, with the proper legal advice, but it is something that would concern me. I've come under some pressure recently to agree to hand my husband's land over to our son directly (NOT from my husband, from his family), bypassing me entirely. He's a lovely young man and probably wouldn't turf his mother out in her dotage, but I'm not relying on anyone's good nature for a roof over my head in my old age!

I'm in a similar situation but my PILS are in their 90s and still think they are the managers. DH and I have worked the farm (managing it) for decades with no recognition.
Farming is a whole different ball game, you have my sympathies

I would check out succession planning - accountancy firms like IFAC do this and I think Teagasc or IFA have produced a book - worth you both looking at it and husband deciding maybe to raise it with parents. Most farm families really dont like the idea of having to sell the farm, break up the farm to pay for care or otherwise. I think there is now a cap on this under Fair Deal but it still may add up - and this could still be a possiblility - it would be worth you or at least husband and parents attending a meeting to explore succession planning to avoid this - husband can raise it in terms of wanting to avoid paying excessive tax...

I think I'd be saying that if they don't want to sign it over then you want to buy your own house. They could live another 20 years. Or is that not possible now with house prices sky rocketting?

@AIBUIthinkNot Oh god - so much this.

My dad does not own his farm but has a inheritable life time tenancy that is worth money to my brother and me. He is still farming as well.

He would not make a will or sort out a POA when in hospital last year with heart trouble - his refrain was "oh I'll be fine" - our uncle, his older brother, had to literally go in to the hospital and bully him in to doing it.

I am very very glad I am not dependent on the farm for income or a home - I got out and went my own way at 18.

Surely 'signing it over' is like a big red flashing flag sign to the tax man.

I'm no expert and know quite little about this but if your trying to be sly wouldn't the best thing to do be to be added onto their property deeds so your DH has a legitimate 1/3rd interest in and be added as a business partner. Rather than have it passed over to you which is obviously just trying to get around inheritance.

@HarridanHarvestingHeldaBeans they were also against us building our own house. This was the dream/ stream/ cloud whatever you'd like to say I was lured here on. Shown a fantastic part of the farm where we could build our house. When this was not materialising I wanted to buy one. I think I would be converting the large garage which is fully detached into a self contained annex.

@anabundanceofjars I can well see them living until their 90s and I really hope they do. But they, esp MIL will still think she is the boss. She controls everything with a fine toothcomb. Altho DH is getting her to release things slowly and she has had me over a few times to show me where certain things are.

@weekfour it'd sicken you to see what we could have bought 10 years ago when we first moved here. But should of could have. I think I need to talk to DH about seriously looking at buying somewhere now. I am feeling very insecure with DC and yes what if something were to happen to DH we would be left with nothing.

@JusthereforXmas no it's ok tax wise to sign it over. In fact here the gov try to encourage it. Get more young blood back into farming.

Yes this! They are massively taking advantage of your husband despite the reduced rent.

@AIBUIthinkNot FIL, is that you 😂

Incredible foresight by the uncle then, seeing into the future that the DH was going into the farm when he was only a teenager! More likely that he wrote the will before DH was born and never updated it.

The more you write the worse it gets. Did you not ask why you couldn't build your own home? If your husband will be taking over the farm, what's the issue?

They have pulled a massive bait and switch on you. If I were you, I would go alone and get legal advice for you. Ask them what happens to you if this all blows up in your face and what you need to do to protect yourself.

Trust no-one but yourself in life OP.

You need to look out for YOU so do what you need to do.

And remember ' a promise is a comfort to a fool ' so don't be no ones fool. 😉

Reduced rent in lieu of income still puts them as disadvantage so she has every right to be concerned.

Scenarios where you’re working on a farm with the goal of inheriting the farm to keep it in the family is very different from normal situations where you’re just inheriting a house form your parent. If they don’t get the farm they have literally wages their lives with nothing to show for it.

Keeping farms in the family happens a lot as it involves family members starting to work on farm from young through to adulthood and invert and repeat.

It is quite literally her business. Farming inheritances are ridiculously archaic and not at all comparable to most people's experience of inheriting.

If you were in the UK then you might be able to use a little-known corner of English law called "proprietary estoppel". (I know you're not, but it might help someone else to hear of it.)

If someone promises you'll inherit some property (a farm is the usual case) and you rely on that promise to your detriment (by not buying your own house) then the courts can order the farm be given to you.

In farming families these things are often set out well in advance. It really is not that uncommon for money over wider family members to be used to equalise. Especially if the uncle was independently wealthy or had no heirs. I know this from many professional dealings in this area directly.

How is this not her business?!

In no way should your in laws sign all over. you will then be in charge over the roof over their heads when they are still fit and healthy and puts them in a weak position going forward. what if theres a row/ disagreement etc down the line. if your DH has siblings they need to be included in any discussions too as all need to be in agreement.inheritance tax is your and your DH problem. The very same thing happened in our family all was signed over and my DB and his wife took over. bossed my poor parents around.changed their home with no by your leave . its a nightmare-my poor parents are depressed!! Their rationale in signing over was to avoid tax for my DB and provide him and his wife with a house ( the rest of us sorted our own homes) by all means sign the landover but not the house they currently live in. im in ireland by the way . you are already benefitting by cheap rent.whats the rush?????

Sorry read some more replies and its true myself and my siblings are fuming over what happened in secret between my brother and his wife and our elderly parents.not a word said all signed over.i can hardly stay in my parents house freeely as its owned by DB. Zero consideration for us as siblings .my parents are in poor health and felt pressured by DB . im sickened by their greed and it has affected is 4 siblings and DB relationship. so in our view its completely up to Db and wife to cover the care home costs going forward as they have got the best part of 650k