Struggling with DIL

[SadMil]

I have a beautiful 13 month old grand child. I’m struggling with DIL and her moods. I totally understand she may feel stressed and tired but when she and son do visit, she often doesn’t speak or is abrupt or rude.

I haven’t overstepped any boundaries, always show an interest in both her and the baby and have been nothing other than supportive.

She organised a birthday party last month and when DH & I arrived she completely ignored us, didn’t even say hello, actively dismissed.

I spoke with son and he said it’s nothing personal she was just in one of her moods.

my husband had made a personalised wooden gift which was engraved. We didn’t even receive a thank you.

Yesterday they popped in and I made a cup of tea on arrival (she always has a cup of tea). She responded with ‘oh you’ve made me tea’. Put it on the side and didn’t drink it.

I’m totally aware she made be depressed and (or) struggling with mental health issues- DS has mentioned she needs medication. It’s obviously none of my business and she clearly doesn’t want to talk about anything which I respect, but this situation is causing my husband and I to feel upset and frustrated.

This is our only grand child and she doesn’t want anything to do with us. It makes me so sad.

should I just stop initiating any contact for a while?

But the OP has known this woman for two years and she has always been like this. And how is OP to understand what might be going on with her DIL if it's never really spoken about, more hinted at?

It varies a lot. My brother's BPD has a very long cycle, and he avoids almost all social contact for years on end. When he starts to meet people again, it's invariably a sign that he's heading for a manic episode.

It’s so different I know. Just be nice, for your son’s sake. Hopefully the situation will improve over time. Good luck.

Well this thread went mental didn't it? Some posters are really desperate for the OP to hand over a large amount of money to two people who don't really give a shit. Nah. The OP, her husband and DIL are all entitled not to like each other. When people don't like each other, it's best that large amounts of money aren't exchanged. Anyhow @SadMil I think keeping the money aside for your son and grandchild in the future is a really good idea. Just step back, it's sad but it is what it is. She was never going to let you in so at least you won't be mugs by handing over the dosh.

Woman behaves (consistently) badly, so it has to be the fault of a man or her MIL.

It's a rule for many mumsnetters it seems.
If the title and OP of this thread substituted MIL for DIL, suddenly the rudeness, blanking and lack of appreciation would be heinous.

Oh God, all your posts reveal such pettiness and jealousy, OP. If I was your DIL and had a MIL like that, I would cut her out of our lives. She could keep her money as I wouldn't want or need money from someone who didn't like me... or anyone at all. She could keep her weak gross tea, too! I would keep my sanity, my peace, my husband and our baby... far, far away from a MIL like that!

Gifts should never be given with any expectations or strings attached. If someone gives me (or my child) a gift and then gets butt hurt that I don't act appreciative about it, I'd rather them just not give it. In that case it was a gift for THEM, so they could receive praise, gratitude, fawning or whatever, and not really a gift for me (or my child).

I know right! Woman pops out baby she can literally do no wrong!

middle aged woman beyond child rearing years on the other hand…basically is at fault for everything and should only exist to support and facilitate others.

being treat like shit Op?! Who cares?! Hand over to ‘em all your money!

according to lots of people on here anyway

And all those people say the DIL doesn’t want or need the money…well she can’t be that well off otherwise she would have bought a house herself by now wouldn’t she

She got pregnant after a few weeks?

Was it planned?

Unfortunately anchor babies are a thing that some women use. We women are not all 100% well intentioned all the time. The child is innocent though and you clearly love them - they shouldn't be made to pay for what will probably be a short term relationship.

Glad that you've decided to put the money into a trust fund for the child. Helping your DS and DIL buy a house will tie them further together - that may end up not being desirable.

Who said anything about them separating? OP said her son is smitten with his beautiful wife. And that he said wouldn't discuss her feelings or mental health with her. Good for the son! He sounds like someone who is in love with his wife and the mother of his child. Not someone who wants to separate from her. I think OP was already clearly on thin ice with them and now she just sunk her own ship.

Can’t you see it’s not about the money though?
The money wasn’t even included in OPs first post. The money was a power ploy to get her DIL looking like some entitled gold digger. When she clearly states that she offered the money willingly. DIL didn’t beg her for money.

I don’t think anyone thinks OP should give them the 50k now.

If OP and her husband aren’t comfortable gifting them the money then that’s more than their decision.

I think people had a problem with her offering the money freely and willingly, then ringing up her son to say actually I’m not giving you the money now because of the DIL.

This makes the OP look petty, she should of said circumstances have changed for us but we’d still be able to help in other ways, moving day, child care etc etc

But now OP has probably put the final nail in the coffin of their relationship. She’s cut off her nose to spite her face.

I disagree @Luxell934.
Firstly unless you're extremely wealthy no decision to gift £50k is petty. For many people this would represent significant savings set aside as a one off to help their child. In which case it's extremely sensible to weigh up surrounding factors. Which may include a judgement on whether you wish a partner to benefit from that gift.
Secondly, its poor advice to tell someone with the courage of their convictions, prepared to own their decision that they should instead take the cowardly approach of lying about their reasons. What would that solve? The DiLs behaviour and OPs reaction to it is what has cost the family this money. Her son should be aware of that, so he can decide for himself the rights and wrongs of it.
From OPs update he 'understands' so I think its a bit of a reach to talk about the OP losing him over it. That's just wishful thinking on some posters' behalf.

LOL so all you ladies defending OP... if you had a MIL who had misgivings about you from the beginning because you dared to happen to be 9 years older than your husband, attractive and you got pregnant together quickly and both decided to have the baby together, and yet your MIL (and apparently FIL) feel you trapped your husband by, you know, having very consensual relations with him that resulted in a baby of both of your making, AND who uses money as a manipulative tactic to control you and tries to guilt trip your husband into divulging your private medical information and complaining about you to her or getting you in line for her and, when that doesn't work, then takes the "gift" she had previously announced away just because you didn't drink her tea and didn't fawn enough over your PILs and their gift at your own child's big milestone first year party... you would seriously drink the tea with a big fake smile on your face thanking her profusely for the stool? Wow. I seriously hope you would NOT do those things and if so, IMO that is just pathetic.

Just because older generations of women raised their own daughters to be doormats and pushovers under the guise of "good manners" doesn't mean the younger generations should have to keep up this farce. Anyone who has such a disrespectful view of me or who tries to lord money over my head doesn't get the pleasure of having me or my child in their life. And any man I decided to raise a child with and marry would be on board because he would know my values and position on things and would know that I don't entertain relationships with people who have negative views of me (I mean, who would do that?? that would be crazy) and he took vows to put me first and would not want to subject me or our child to someone who would have such negative and disdainful views of me.

My husband and I are raising our own kids with these same values and I would be so proud of my daughter if she rejected the tea, stool and money of a MIL like this (or anyone who thought so little of her) when clearly there are expectations and conditions attached to these "gifts" (which aren't really gifts even, just "promises" of gifts that can be broken if she doesn't please them enough.) It's a shame so many women feel they have to debase themselves in the name of "faaaaamily" when TRUE family loves, accepts and supports you.

Anyone who thinks I entrapped their son and that gifts can be revoked for not falling at their feet enough is NOT my family and I do NOT have to thank them for their manipulative treatment of me, nor do I have to have them in my life at all. I don't care that I happen to be related to them by marriage, or blood- I already have a loving supportive spouse as well as other relatives and good friends who are like family to me because they TREAT me like family, and vice versa, so I don't need people in my life who are going to drag me down instead of raise me up, and again, vice versa, as I would not be able to respect someone who acted like these PILs do and would have no interest in a relationship with someone I don't respect and who obviously don't respect me.

Those of you who haven't tried self-respect should try it sometime, it is very freeing. But don't be so busy condemning other women who have self-respect as selfish dumb cows that you forget to give it a try yourself, because you just might find that you like it. ;)

I agree here, and I think that's been some of the issue with the responses you've received, OP.

It's less an issue of good manners being 'old fashioned' - I also set a store by these, although I do acknowledge that my idea of good manners may will differ from that of others - than the assumption that issuing thanks, the domain of the gift in itself, interaction between families on both sides etc., always falls to the woman.

It's an assumption that's so ingrained we don't always even recognize it's there. It's noticeable because I have no interest in doing what MN refers to as Wifework, and I don't do wifework: my husband is a sentient, intelligent human being who's more than capable of picking up his own life admin.

Coupled with that is your own acknowledgement that your DiL is struggling at present, to the extent that some of the standards we might expect others to live up to might, out of compassion, be overlooked. Bipolar is no minor diagnosis. It's a psychosis - easy to confuse with schizophrenia hence difficult to diagnose - and is serious enough to carry with it a significantly increased suicide risk.

It's not so simple as 'She was rude!' She's ill.

This is no walk in the park to live with, either, especially with the care of a young baby. You sound as though you raised a good son. He's loyal to her and won't discuss her private torment - and torment is what it is.

I think you could cut them both a bit of slack, considering what they have to live with. But yes, in view of all the above, your son does carry the bulk of the obligation to his parents. It might not be forgotten if you make things even more difficult at such a time, as opposed to trying to make it easier.

And when it comes to the latter sentence, I know what I'm talking about. I had in-laws who made every tragedy in my life all about them. Whether others stepped in to ease the grief and offer practical support, they seemed to go all out to make a horrible time even worse than it already was.

The relationship has never recovered.

If you can't afford to give generously, then don't give. By generously, I mean, the money should not be conditional on past behaviours or perceived slights.

If this really was the conversation you had, prepare for your relationship to get a whole lot trickier.

@rowanoak

OF COURSE, if she’s beautiful than their relationship must be rock solid…

Jesus @rowanoak do you feel better now that's off your chest? Nah, it would be so much more doormatty for the OP to try harder with the DIL. I mean, I'm clever enough to read what the OP actually wrote. You are mentioning the 3 solid examples OP gave and building a narrative around them. Which is a little simple is it not? If you would be proud of your daughters for treating someone dear to their partner badly for no reason (and plenty people do) then there is little I can say to you. Funny how you build a narrative slating OP yet the DIL is an innocent in all of this 😁 OP has made the right decision to step back. Good for her. More people should have the same self respect and boundaries. Now step away cos that post was all kinds of batshit.

Wouldn't you? I've been independent all my adult life and couldn't even contemplate accepting this amount of money from anyone. It would make me deeply uncomfortable. It carries obligations that might not even be immediately apparent at the time. And if ever I dared say 'no' to something, there's a possibility this sense of heavy obligation would get in the way of that, or hang over us, or that we'd even be issued a reminder.

I don't like being under any obligation; not even implicitly.

The question is moot as DH and I never been offered it, and are never likely to be. I also strongly suspect that DH would feel precisely the same as I do about the situation: not least because we don't need it, and are probably better off financially than his parents (mine are dead).

If he felt a different inclination, and I was so strongly against, there'd be an interesting impasse in our marriage.

She’s horrible and deserves nothing from you. I expect once she learns she’s not getting a cash gift, she’ll do everything in her power to sever your son’s contact with you, so be prepared for that. Hopefully in time you’ll son will see the wood for the trees.

My comment wasn't about the money, it was about the thank you for the stool.

I'd be mortified if I was offered 50,000 by anyone. My main concern was it robs me of a sense of achieving something on my own. Unless someone is very, very rich, that is too much to give away IMO.

You sound so nice op- wish you were my MIL. This behaviour is unacceptable, whatever her state of mind. My own sister has similar issues with her DIL, she is so supportive but only gets a bad attitude and mood swings from her in return. It is such a difficult situation.

Apologies for crossed wires. I feel exactly the same as you.

Did lead me to thinking, though, what would happen in someone's marriage if the partners were diametrically opposed like this!

It comes back to the assumption that life admin, even Ps and Qs, is automatically 'wife work'. There are interesting linguistic studies into women using the words 'please' and 'thank you' far more often than men. We apologise and use defensive language more than men do, too.

I tried a little experiment with this, and tried to modify my own language to be more conversant with the speech of a man. I've noticed other colleagues in my workplace doing the same thing (we are a university English department, to explain the context!) and watched the results with interest.

There is pushback - not altogether overt because you're actively looking for it - but it's there. Sometimes it's subtle. Sometimes a woman will receive accusations of rudeness of bolshiness which in men would be seen as assertive. When I asked men to stop talking over me in a meeting, there was a palpable sense of bewilderment - and probably the sense that I wasn't being as polite as a woman should.

It's HARD conditioning to unpick, and when you start, people really don't like it.

That's an aside to this thread, but it's relevant. Family consternation is almost always the woman's fault - that is because a different set of expectations is placed on women than men.

@rowanoak

i love how you’re on about not wanting women to be door mats and then advocating that Op just sucks it up and hands over her money to someone who really doesn’t treat her well!
can you really not see the irony?!

That’s an interesting way of looking at it - that the gift was really for them. The way I read it was that maybe spending lots of time and effort on creating a gift was this man’s way of showing he cared about his grandchild, so I could see why - if that were the case - it would hurt not to have that acknowledged. (To reiterate, it wouldn’t hurt enough to cut someone off because of it - I don’t understand that reaction at all - and it certainly wouldn’t hurt more coming from my S/DIL than my actual child.)

I phrased it clumsily by saying it was fair to expect gratitude, but I stand by the assertion that thanking someone for something they’ve done for us is always the right thing to do: even if it doesn’t mean anything to us, surely we can at least appreciate the fact that they thought we were worth the time they invested in it.