Not being "feminine" does not make me any less female

[orangeleavesinautumn]

I have no boobs, short hair, men's clothes, no make up, very little jewellery etc.

But I am 100% female.

So don't ask me my pronouns. You can see I am a woman

How did society and civilisation manage to sustain itself for 1000's and 1000's of years without everyone 'stating their pronouns'. It's a miracle anyone could tell who was who, how on earth did people know????!!!!!

Yeah, that was what I was wondering when it was suggested we state are pronouns at work. I mean, how ridiculous. Yes, Brenda, Linda, Louise, whoever you are, I have managed to refer to you as she or her perfectly well up to now.

Recently, I had to respond to one of the pronoun users, using you and your several times in my email. I was so tempted to reply to her in the 3rd person so I could use her pronouns but managed to restrain myself.

@SayHi
Yes it’s very stereotypical but if you choose to dress or make your appearance a certain way then you may get people who are unsure if you’re male or female.

99% of the time nobody is unsure whether someone is male or female. They may wonder if they identify as something different, but they're not confused about that persons sex.

OP, who is asking, is it in the workplace?

I have some colleagues (all female and young and/or junior) with pronouns in their emails, but have never been directly asked. I would just smile beatifically answer "no thank you", my response to chuggers.

Exactly!

Bravo!

You can see I am a woman

If people are asking your pronouns, they probably can't see you're a woman. That's why they're asking. I've never been asked for my pronouns, ever - even though I have a unisex name. So people aren't just asking routinely. They're asking when they're genuinely unsure.

People don't want to offend you by getting it wrong, that's all.

No it's not that. Op has said many times it's obvious she is a woman. It's people seeing short hair and trousers and equating this with a different gender identity. I have met very few (if any) people in my life who I couldn't correctly identify their sex - it really is very rare.

Nope. It's the assumption that if you aren't feminine you may not be female.
Humanity hasnt just lost the ability to recognise sex, it's being conditioned out of them by ideology.

absolutely 100% can see I am a woman! there is no possibility of a mistake close up, - I have a woman's face and voice! From a distance, maybe not so clear, but I am not worried about the occasional genuine mistake, maybe 1-2% of the time getting called "sir" accidently, from a distance

I am a teacher and have just been on a week long school trip with hundreds of children I don't know, and yes, one or two called "sir" when they saw me in the distance, and hundreds of them said "miss" and ALL of them said "miss" from 8 m away of less - I am very clearly female

Yes, but it’s the gender crap. Because the sexist stereotypes have taken hold so strongly, they feel they have to check you’re not using your hair as a signal that you might identify as a bloke.

I used to go on the TES website years ago, and teachers often laughed about pupils calling male teachers Miss or female teachers Sir. And occasionally a male teacher Mum. I'm sure he looked nothing like the DC's mum!

Indeed. There are studies into the proportions all over the face that show specific groupings. Even down to the space between base of nose to top of lip.

There is a reason facial feminisation surgery is brutal and still doesn’t quite achieve a natural look of a female person. It is hugely complex and there is so much already programmed that an infant can start telling from a certain age.

I have a feminine first name and a surname that can be used as a common male name. I have often had emails calling me by my surname, ergo indirectly assuming I'm a man. Have yet to have to call a waahmbulance over it 🤷‍♀️

Why would someone use he/him?! Just because someone isn’t dressed up lol barbie it’s very very rare to not be able to tell if someone is a woman.

@orangeleavesinautumn I’m with you. My wife is very butch, but very much a woman.

If people wish to be referred to by a pronoun that doesn't align with their sex, the onus is on them to make that clear.
That way the rest of us can carry on with our lives, wearing what we choose and allowing people to refer to us by the pronoun that fits our sex as the observe it.
In the vast majority of cases, this will result in women being called she, and men he. In a vanishingly small number of cases, people may make an error about a person's sex. Where this happens they are typically corrected.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont ask.

I recently have a friend being very offended someone thought she they were woman because they look like one. They wear short hair and don't identify as woman, but have feminine traits (voice, face, etc).

So I guess people are trying to navigate complex situations like that the best they can, and dont always get it right, unelss they can read your mind.

If those are the rules (ignore the evidence in front of your eye and ears, wait for the special essence to reveal itself), then we might as well base pronouns in whether a person likes rice or not.

Pronouns are sex based.

Anything else is meaningless drivel, about controlling the speech of others and employed by individuals so far up their own jacksies they can see the last meal they ingested.

If those are the rules (ignore the evidence in front of your eye and ears, wait for the special essence to reveal itself), then we might as well base pronouns in whether a person likes rice or not.

Or rather, we might as well ditch personal pronouns as they've ceased to fulfil their grammatical function as soon as you have to think about them and they make communication less fluent.

In fact, in the rare cases when there is genuine ambiguity - that's what we do, just use the persons name or other methods of avoiding using a pronoun, or use 'they'. That's so normal for people of unknown sex that we don't think about it.

So much this.

True. Language evolves over time. I suspect it'd be less confusing to have a new, gender neutral pronoun rather than use one that refers to plural rather than singular.

I can see the great literature now.

They all went down to the sea. Susan paddled, contemplating the pull of the tide. It was fate, they decided, before they joined the rest to continue their journey along the shoreline. It had changed them, they thought. Refreshed by the breeze, they decided to stop by a bar. Ordering a beer was the least they deserved.

Kill me now.

So in what context were you "asked"?

Bravo!

Why are you wearing mens clothes. Sorry but I just don't get it.