What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

I was once in a French supermarket and two children were walking in front of me. The dad of one of the children suddenly wacked his son so hard round the head. I don’t know what for. The boy went bright red with shock and embarrassment and it really upset me. I’ve got a terrible memory but that’s stayed with me for years

How many English people even sit together for a meal around a table every day? Eating with a knife a fork? It’s something that is the norm where I live, it is normal so doesn’t even need the ’discipline’ many are talking about.

Probably because they know if they misbehave they’ll get a smack. I wouldn’t want my child to be terrified of me, I would never expect my child to sit through a two hour meal quietly having conversations with nothing else to do , how utterly boring for them. I don’t need my child to act like an adult , they are children as long as they’re not disturbing others let them watch abit of Netflix or colouring in.

This is really fucking offensive.

Hold whatever views on parenting and screens that you like - but don't cast aspersions on a legitimate medical condition. People with ADHD have to put up with this shit constantly and it's unacceptable.

"Everyone" does not have it. And many who claim to have it haven't been officially and properly diagnosed.

People with ADHD have low levels of neurotransmitters in the brain. It's why sedatives and stimulants have the opposite effect on an ADHD brain. You can't make that up. Stimulants calm down a person with ADHD - try giving them to someone without ADHD and you'll see the opposite effect!

Educate yourself before being so rude.

Yeah must say I’m not impressed by the French either. The last two times we went my 20 yr old dd commented on how horrible many parents were to their kids, shouting and threatening. Shocking.

a delicious home cooked meal that mum made

Faggots and peas? Not in anyway delicious 🤮

The OP seems surprised. Sadly I am not.

As I have mentioned on other threads, when in France I do my utmost to avoid being identified as from the U.K.

you know that smacking is not legal in France, while in England and Northern Ireland it is legal for a carer or parent to discipline their child physically if it is a "reasonable" punishment.

It's sad if you believe the only way to parent and teach manners to your child is by terrifying them or abusing them.

What’s the resort? It sounds nice 🙂

This.

Children need to learn what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. Running around at meal times is not acceptable. I had a perfectly happy childhood but knew I stayed at the table whether we were at home or at a restaurant until mealtime was over. I don't ever recall being bored just because I didn't have Netflix in front of me either.

I went to the Ardeche a few years ago and there was a group of French teenagers camping out and listening to music. I've never come across such antisocial behaviour from British teenagers at a campsite. Just really inconsiderate throughout the night. Drinking and loud music through the night and here were two big shits in the communal showers in the morning. To top it all off, one boy lobbed a bottle into my car when I was driving past. It was unprovoked. I was just driving past them with my window down.

They do not have to watch Netflix ffs..just talk to them!

The 'using screens creates feral shits' trope is so, so boring on MN. Although apparently it's just in the cheap places to eat for poor people, so that's good to know.

I’m ND and I would have sat still at dinner and just daydreamed or watched people. My ND sons didn’t sit still and they didn’t have screens when they were very young.

So who knows but I think people are too quick to blame parenting. It’s not easy fighting against screens and junk food and it’s very difficult to go back once they’ve been allowed. Every time a parent has a bad day the rules slip a bit more. When we were little those things weren’t as available so naturally they were avoided.

It’s been like this for decades. I remember being in a restaurant in France and my Mum being embarrassed that there was one other British family there and the both of us were pissing around, whereas all the French kids were behaving perfectly 😂. I think the culture isn’t so child-centric.

You've hit the nail on the head. It's an absolute culture clash.

Sick of British kid bashing.

Recently got back from Spain.

It was the British kids including my children in games and being friendly overall where as the German and French families often has hostile little brats giving dirty looks and sullen like their parents.

As a whole I think we have very kind intentioned friendly little children in this country.

Okay our toddlers might not be blanket trained to be docile throughout a 90 minute dinner but they would be the first to hug your child if he fell over!

Why does watching a cartoon for 15 minutes mean you never, ever interact with your child? Oh wait, it doesn't. It means you have your coffee in quiet, your DC have 15 minutes of downtime to relax in an adult environment and everyone is happy.

Parenting. Pure and simple.

DS has been referred for ADHD.
He does not run around restuarants. He sits down and behaves.
ADHD is not an excuse.

I think there’s a balance to be struck between adult-centric and child-centric. We’d expect our kids to eat nicely and make conversation when eating. But if small kids are hungry and waiting for food in a restaurant then colouring books come out or even a card game on holiday - why on earth not? And on the rare occasions that it’s an extended family/friends meal with gaps and chatting between courses then the colouring books come out again. There’s a big gap between requiring reasonable table manners and politeness and making a meal out into an endurance test and battleground because kids are expected to behave like adults.

I'm English. I expect my children to be able to sit through a simple meal. It's ridiculous the amount of parents who sit down, whip out a screen and ignore their children. Where have our standards gone? I love the company of my children so I've always engaged with them.

2-3 times a day, every day here thanks! I don’t know circles you have experienced but in mine we eat together at the table as the norm.

The problems with autism and family dinners are three-fold: eating noises, not knowing where to look, and dinner table conversation. You cannot stay silent when people ask you questions, but answering runs the risk of saying the wrong thing. I so much prefer to make like Queen Elizabeth 1 and dine alone.

Brilliant book. And funny too.

I live in France, OP.
There's a very ingrained "culture de table" here in France, one aspect of life that transcends class lines so almost all french families are very similar.
To sit and eat with your family is something that is just so normalised from the moment they can sit in a high chair and eat meals at certain times, i.e. no longer breast/bottle fed, that they know no different.

I'll admit that I'm still impressed by it, all these years later. I teach French teens to have a lot of exposure to children and young adults and it's as much part of the routine as brushing your teeth.