What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

Oh yeah they ask but they don't do anything about it. How is her diet....she eats well, plenty of veg - check! Not a right before we proceed can you follow this diet for 3 months and then come back with the results. Does that happen?Nope.

The parents in the UK using screens to parent their kids as well as screens to fuel their own screen addictions and then feeding kids junk food are to blame. You really notice it when you travel, although it’s equally noticeable just walking around the streets in the UK and not just the deprived areas either.

Part of it is the education system. My French friend came to visit in the UK and thought ours was SO amazing, child-centred etc. We may start young in school but it's very play based and even after that the work is fun, not sitting in rows learning by rote.

Again, I lived in Spain and loads of kids had screens and ate junk. And there was a programme on Radio 4 the other day about how French children are now consuming a lot of junk food and their diets are changing.

So many people insist on British bashing, the internalised hatred is so odd.

Oh if you have a diet that cures adhd I’d love to hear it, please share 🙏🏼

Parents have a holiday home in France and we know several families with young children. Some NDN’s children are naughty and some do play up but generally even in the local water park where they do have fun, and strops or tantrums especially by a certain age aren’t tolerated.

They don’t like screens at the table but also food and eating out and cooking is important in French culture but also sports etc if they do that. It does seem sometimes like it’s organise fun. There’s a local carnival around now in a local town/city called Saintes where you get performers in the street and even this sometimes seems a bit tame (cheeky).

Actually thinking back to it my parents and grandparents were big on manners, especially at the table and when eating pot. Boundaries, engaging with kids ratted then shoving them in front of screens. My DNephew once he’s watched too much TV can get a bit brattish and hooked on it.

DD was always great at sitting and waiting. I think it’s just her though.
Id say I live in a northern town and there’s very few places to eat out, that aren’t curry and Chinese etc.

my friend left Portugal because her daughter was autistic, people were very very intolerant of her. She felt she couldn’t go places with her, so didn’t. It might be the same in France.

But surely that is a failure of the mental health system to address these other issues rather than necessarily an over diagnosis of ADHD.

I have ptsd and ADHD (it was much easier to get the PTSD diagnosis than ADHD). The two definitely interplay. There’s so little known about the causes and effects, the kid eating lots of sugary stuff might be self medicating. Chewing stimulates the vagus nerve that is an important part of the parasympathetic nervous system for example (verbal stimming does the same). ND is not straight by any means.

The causes of ADHD etc are largely unknown. Trauma may trigger a genetic predisposition etc - we just don’t know. To try and write off adhd in all the circumstances you listed is naive and ill informed, but I agree that an ADHD diagnosis shouldn’t exclude other investigations. But mental health is never fixed by a magic bullet, it needs to be addressed from multiple angles of mind body and spirit. Don’t confuse the inadequacy of a treatment with the validity of a diagnosis.

You really have no idea about autism. Autism isn’t something that develops in life, it’s not something that can be changed by not being on a screen. Children with autism have very real difficulties and it’s absolutely stupid ideas like this that prevent children getting help that they need.

Oh if you have a diet that cures adhd I’d love to hear it, please share I think there are foods which can help symptoms and foods which can exacerbate symptoms. However, my child with ADHD, like a lot of children with the condition, has sensory issues around food tastes and textures and is very rigid in what she will and won't eat, so it's not always that easy to give a child with ADHD a diet that may help them, and certainly not when they get to the teen years and have more autonomy over what they put into their bodies. Kids with ADHD are always chasing dopamine fixes and are attracted to all of the food that is bad for them. It's a vicious circle as a parent.

I didn't say diet cures it at all, you clearly misunderstood. A poor diet can cause similar symptoms to ADHD and if a child changes to a good diet then those problem behaviours that were caused by diet disappear so why not check first if diet is the cause of the symptoms and then check off other things that can cause like symptoms too. Maybe a little understanding of what you read might help you.

I’m not sure if you’re specifically just talking about ADHD or not (which I have no experience of) or all ND. My child is diagnosed with Autism which was very evident from around 15 months old, he was diagnosed at 4 which (where I live is very early) but in between we had years of speech, language and communication assessment reports, OT assessments, another professional involved to assess food aversions, a very meticulous sleep hygiene routine, blocks of S&L therapy ….all sorts, he most definitely wasn’t just labelled and many other things were investigated prior to diagnosis to rule out other explanations (lots of ear, nose and throat appointments to exclude any adenoid issues or hearing problems).

I think everyone’s experience is very different clearly from what you’ve described but I think it’s wholly brash and unfair to blanket statement everyone who is going through what I’ve described and experienced as seeking a label to excuse poor behaviour because they’re lazy etc etc etc

I have spent a lot of my parenthood criticising and blaming myself for my son’s difficulties (he was my first child) and it was a waste of precious time and energy as no matter how I parented him he would still be autistic. I only realised this when I had my other children who are all NT, all happy, polite and well-behaved kids but if you were to judge me as a parent based on my eldest child’s behaviour I’m sure you would have plenty to say about how lazy I must be and how I have no boundaries. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

Yes that is true, there is evidence from Prisons that proper food less upf and fake colouring etc reduces aggression quite a lot.

My child with ADHD has a super healthy diet. They seek their dopamine fix in other ways. Their sibling who who is apparently NT (but I suspect probably not) is the one with an extremely fussy diet, sensory issues around food and seeks sweet and sugary foods. Go figure 🤷🏽‍♀️

Hear hear!

Nope not a failure of the mental health system - parents not willing to go down that route as it exposes the cause - THEM! Also again no need for a diagnosis in mental health either as that behaviour is normal to the situation that child has experienced, just help them no need for a diagnosis.

There is no trauma that causes any genetic issues as trauma is not biological.

I am not confused at all, we just refuse to look at obvious causes for behaviour BEFORE going down the diagnosis route. We slap a label on which then proves how easy it is to misdiagnose when the condition is all about subjective interpretations and nothing concrete.

What a bizarre response, this was a comment about the attitude towards mental health in France

Again, I lived in Spain and loads of kids had screens and ate junk. And there was a programme on Radio 4 the other day about how French children are now consuming a lot of junk food and their diets are changing. So many people insist on British bashing, the internalised hatred is so odd Agree with this. It's really common to see kids in Spain playing on their phones and there are also a lot of overweight kids here, who are overweight from eating junk. The breakfast of choice for kids is cola cao (chocolate milkshake) or milk and biscuits, and almuerzo (elevenses) is a ham sandwich, normally a white baguette type bread - so hardly a healthy start to the day. Again, parents and society in general here don't see that as a problem. British people do like to engage in self-flagellation in a way other nationalities don't.

British people are just so different from Europeans all rounds. Ultimately maybe that's why we broke away in the end.
I find them so much more civilised and reserved
We're just programmed differently I think. More violent, ferrel, emotional , Impulsive

Britain conquered most of the world back during the empire. Very few corners were left untouched. Its not pretty but it happened.

Positives and negatives to both but we are just so different

Nope I'm not. I am saying that with ADHD there is not support put in place to check for other known causes first.

I also find it wholly brash to label someone with ASD as not knowing anything about it but here you are. Well done.

@WeeWillyWinkie9 have you any idea how offensive and insensitive you are coming across? Because let me assure you, you are.

I think @Nottodays8tan’s reply was far more measured and polite than you deserved. I think you should read it again and display some of this mythical understanding of what you’ve read that you are urging on others.

Nope it was said that kids in France are often not diagnosed as they look for other causes first and it is found that in many instances it was not ADHD but trauma, diet etc causing the issues. That then led to someone saying that is why they kill themselves as if it is just this specific group that are suicidal because of that, there was nothing to suggest that the increase in suicide in France is down to them not getting a diagnosis because it was found their diet caused their lack of concentration. This was the suggestion. I find it odd when there is no data to suggest this is the issue - kids not getting a diagnosis because they didn't need one then go on to suicide was the suggested line, I suggested that is an odd thing to say.

mummerator You're lucky your child eats like that. I've always struggled with DD as she will eat something then completely reject it, to the point of gag reflex when she eats it. Now she's nearly 14, especially since starting meds, her diet has become so limited. It's got to the point where I'm more focussed on the fact that she eats, than anything else and use supplements and disguised vegetables to try to keep her healthy, as at one point she got quite thin. She's taking a course of folic acid as she was becoming anaemic.

We’re more violent?! Impulsive? Eh?!? Do you ever read European news?

So its insensitive to want the causes of behaviour checked? Why is that insensitive?