What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

Come to Spain if you want to feel better about British kids 😂

In my school, something similar happened and they were disqualified from that exam, and parents were sent a bill for the cost of entering the child into the exam.

My school send bills for cost of exam for lots of things, including not turning up without sick note / proof, so if you'd let her back out at last minute she also would have got a bill.

But also school doesn't chase these bills, kids probably won't be back etc. not sure how many actually pay, I'm just casual staff for exams team doing invigilating and other exams work for the exams team.

Well tonight I've felt quite defensive over my kids as the older one is trying his absolute best to talk French and play and the kids are running away and whispering about him, pushing etc. he's now not running away from the table but that's because his confidence is knocked sadly.

Also on the set menu they've got a cheese burger pizza so feeling less inferior all round really.

Ha ha!

I know that in France they don’t treat ADHD with drugs only in extreme cases. Almost all the time the treatment is therapy. Maybe this is indicative of more empathy towards children.

I think that you could easily be in a situation where British kids are laughing and whispering when someone new is trying to make friends...it feels horrible but I don't think its nationality driven. Some people are generous and look to connect and others don't. And that is the same for adults and children. I hope you can all have fun on your holiday anyway.

I suspect you've got your answer. The culture is very much around shame. Same as in a lot of other European countries. They're shamed into obedience.

Yes I know. I'm not bashing French kids or culture because a few French kids are being a bit mean to mine. I guess it's just some perspective that mine aren't as good at sitting still but they're being jolly friendly and kind to everyone so feeling less like a shitty mum tonight.

This! We have never allowed screens at the table and my DD has always sat through meals in restaurants and at home without getting up half way through.

On Desert Island Discs the Roux brothers said they came to the UK for the freedom 🥁

I think it's more that French parents teach their kids good manners and to respect others and what's going on around them at a very early age - maternal section at primary school starts at age 3 - this includes use of the school canteen if they wish -

Acquiescence. I think we are more accepting of Neurodiversity and work with it rather than controlling it.

I think there should be a happy medium. On the one hand, it seems that French children are unusually passive and obedient. On the other, it seems that many British children are somewhat disruptive and unheeding of the effect their behaviour has on those around them.

Personally, I think it is unreasonable to expect youngish children to sit quietly for 90 minutes, but I think the need for some British children to be on the go and or otherwise entertained all the time isn't right either.

I also agree that when children - and often their parents - are always peering at a screen it affects normal and courteous social behaviour and interactions.

Christ, yeah, so empathetic to deny someone needed medication

I read this thread and had a lot of sympathy for the girl. It wasn’t crucial yet she had been pressured into taking it when she really didn’t want to as she doesn’t like maths. She did the normal GCSE. I think there’s no comparison. When my children were young, I expected certain behaviour in public even if they didn’t feel like it. By the time they were 16, I trusted them to make their own excisions regarding the subjects they wanted to do. I have them my thoughts if asked-but if my dad has said I don’t like maths, I’m doing the GCSE because I obviously have to but I don’t need the additional, I would e accepted that. So no comparison to teaching a young child we are considerate of others when in public.

Just different experiences @BitOutOfPractice

Truly I usually found the ones who tended to be most attention seeking were the kids with siblings, especially where they were close in age, as they always seemed to be competing for their parents attention. The onlies didn't seem to feel the need to compete.

However I am aware this is far from a perfectly formed theory and is based on the observation of a very small pool of children who are nearly all now in their mid to late 20s....

This

@FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight you are definitely doing more than something. Your children sound lovely and full of joy and it’s because they have you as their mum!

That should say ‘ doing more than something right’…I always have typos!

I live in France.
I agree that french parents often discipline and punish their children more and I don't usually agree with with this.
However, I must say that I do not agree with what people are saying about ND children but can only talk from my experience. I have a severely autistic 10 year old and we are out and about a lot. I overwhelmingly encounter kindness and tolerance from the french towards him.
Have had a couple of bad experiences, one in Germany and one in the UK!

We went with a friend yesterday to a beautiful castle by the sea and sat outside by the lawns to have afternoon tea and cake It was a lovely afternoon in peaceful surroundings ; we thought . However there was a family near us with two small boys, the only other people there, The boys tore round and round us shouting and screaming non stop . The mother did make a slight attempt to restrain them but it made no difference . It was just such a waste of a lovely peaceful afternoon after all the staying at home we had been through due to illness .

Read the book ‘French kids don’t throw food’. To be honest I don’t think the parenting style explained in that book is great. It’s perfectly normal for a child not to sit quietly through a 90 minute dinner. It’s kind of a adults come first style and not very Sarah Ockwelll-Smith.

Both my kids are neurodiverse and would have managed to sit at the table without running off at that age. Probably max duration of meal would be 45mins to 1hr. They never ran away from the table and asked if they wanted to go somewhere else.

we are not particularly strict either

we are the same, always have dinner sat at a table, no screen, I ask them to be sat but it’s a constant fight. My guards is Italian and when we go there on holiday Italian kids sit through two hours lunches/dinner at home and at restaurant with no problems. They all things but kids are unruled savages.
I think it’s the school system.
in Italy they stay sat for several hours at school they have a lot of homework and an year 3-4 kid would spend 5 hours at school in the morning with 30 mins break in the middle to go to the garden and then 3-4 hours sat at home for homework a day. They just get used to it from 6 yo. They have 2 hour PE a week and the rest is all sat at the desk. British school is very few hours a day sat at desk and loads of PE, music, art, dance, running around. Completely different.
then of course when kids grow the hours of study also increase and then adults can stay sat. The level of general culture in history, geography, art, literature, philosophy of Italian kids is extraordinary, British kid learn a fraction of it,

There's a book called French children don't throw food. Eye opening.

Kids should be able to sit at a table for the duration of a meal without getting down even at a young age. My dc are 22 and 18 so when they were young screens were in their infancy and so parents talked, asked questions, played quizzes, etc with children at the table when out and about.
I'm going to sound very old, but it is lazy parenting to not get children used to sitting through a meal without getting down and running around. Kids now rule the roost much more than they did 20 years ago and I'm not at all sure that it is a good thing.