What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

I also agree.
I’m not British myself and find the self-bashing by some Brits quite odd.
I’ve encountered different types of kids here, just like in other countries where I previously lived.
I don’t see any particularly outrageous behavior amongst British kids.
If anything, British parents seem to pay more attention to politeness and reasonable behavior than what I’ve seen in Germany for example.

Tbf it’s particularly prevalent on mn

Loads of pro anywhere but here threads

Perhaps but I find it a bit gaslighty when the answer to everything is ‘oh it was happening all around you, you just didn’t realise it’. I can certainly say had the sons acted like this 30 years ago dad would’ve doled out a harsh punishment. Now itd be called abusive. Shopping is the punishment apparently

I have a child who has actually done all that!! So windows were henceforth kept locked religiously, hand was held tight near roads, medication was kept in a locked box up high. But this wasn't achieved just by me saying 'no' , I had to make it impossible. What would be the dining equivalent? Strapping them to a chair?

I do actually believe strongly in manners and teaching behaviour, I do try very hard to instill good behaviour- not that it is always obvious if you see my children 🙄... I am not at all advocating to let children go nuts. But the personalities of the child surely have a lot to do with it

But the personalities of the child surely have a lot to do with it

of course, there's no one rule fits all. But the end result is the same for every child, you just adapt your parenting. Let's be honest, with any child, what worked in the morning won't work in the afternoon 😂

I have read the full thread. My daughter is 4.5 and since nursery has sat with her cronies at a table for meals (2-3 years). Since 3 years old at preschool she sits for a 3 course meal. This is in Spain. They don´t get kiddy meals, normal adult meals but smaller portions. I guess it must be like that in France. When I take her to restaurants she has normal food and is well behaved. Same at family meals.
But then, that is how it used to be in Britan too. My mum and grandmother are English and sitting down having a proper meal, holding your cutlery correctly, elbows off the table etc was very important. English education was strict. My brother and I had to say thank you to our grandmother for a lovely meal, can we get down from the table? Education and family life have changed a lot in the last 40 years in England and also in Spain. Perhaps France is frozen in the past?

Our boys always took Game Boys to restaurants too, they’re both in their 30s now.
Not being patronising, just saying how it is.
They appear to be lovely husbands & dads.
Restaurants are a small part of parenting. We certainly didn’t allow annoying behaviour in shops or eating places. However, when they finished their meals, we were quite happy to let them do their own thing if they wanted to. As a GM now I still think it’s fine.

Wow I went to primary in the 90s and it was nothing like this!! We had plastic plates and slots for eating. Menu was often Turkey drumsticks & syrup sponge! No grave was ever said and it was definitely not formal!!

My kids have grown up in Italy (and yes there are a lot of badly behaved Italian kids too!) but one difference I have noticed is that meals last longer in Italy and everyone is expected to participate and stay the distance. I think a lot of British kids (and adults) just aren't used to long meals especially with no screens.

Yep, it's that simple

*Violinist64 · Today 14:10

Yes, when I was at primary school back in the dark ages (1970s) we always sat at tables to eat with knife, fork and spoon and white china crockery emblazoned with the blue Norfolk county council logo. We said grace (“For what we are about to receive, may the Lord make us truly thankful”) before the food was served. The main course was served by a top junior (year six), with the vegetables and gravy served by two year fives. The year six child would serve the pudding and one of the year five children would serve the custard or other accompaniment. There was no choice. We drank water, which we poured from big jugs into proper glasses. There would always be a member of staff at the table, who would encourage us to try a little bit of everything. Finally, you were not allowed to leave the table until everyone had finished. This meant that many of us evolved into adults who would eat most things that were put in front of us, we learned eating etiquette (the staff members ensured this), and we were treated in an age-appropriate adult way.*

l was in primary from 71to 76. We had plastic glasses and plates. No one forced us to eat everything. The students served each other. I don’t remember learning ‘eating etiquette’ we just ate our meal.

Posh school too

We’ve done all that with our ds since he was tiny (in UK). At age 3 he was on holiday in France eating a huge pot of mussels in a restaurant, he wouldn’t have dreamed of getting down from the table. We talked to him a lot though, he’s always been part of the conversation. Even now at 14 there are strictly no screens at the table!

Not French, but from another European country.

Sonetimes my son asks me why he has to do certain things, or why he’s not allowed to do certain things, when his British peers don’t have to or are allowed to.

I say that it’s because he doesn’t have an English mother. In my eyes, high standards and discipline are important. That attitude goes for my culture in general, and I think it serves us well.

As for meal times, I see many posters saying that their children get bored having to politely sit through a multi course meal. So what? Let them be bored, I guarantee it won’t harm them.

yes they might be bored, but while they’re bored they’re still observing and learning an important life skill. They’re also learning that sometimes in life they have to do things they’d rather not do. This then translates to many other areas of life. I teach my children that they have their rights, but also their duties, and that duties come before pleasure. So I don’t have any problems with them refusing to do school work, or anything really. If something must be done then it must be done, end of story.

Another thing is fussiness around food. What are “children’s foods” all about? It still baffles me. Kids in my country eat what the adults eat from babyhood. There are no separate beige menus consisting of deep friend junk food for kids - in fact, chips and chicken nuggets are seem as good that is certainly NOT for children.

if we’re having fish, the child is having fish - and I mean fish, not fish fingers in breadcrumbs. Chips are a rare unhealthy treat, definitely not a daily thing, and rarely eaten at home. Same goes for crisps and such. Adults rarely eat them, so they’re not kept at home, so children don’t grow up regularly eating them. But they do eat veg. And proper meals. And olives, and broccoli.

overall I find British parenting to be too lax and frankly lazy - but then again, I won’t be the one having to deal with it, so it’s none of my business.

Reminds of when we took our autistic son to Paris Disney when he was 2. We had toddler reins for him, because he was a runner. The looks and comments we got from the French people were awful. He was really tall too, so when he was in his buggy we got horrid looks. We couldn't win really. Sadly, I expect ND French kids spend a lot of time at home. Personally, I'd rather see young kids dancing and having fun between courses, rather than acting like mini adults.

As for meal times, I see many posters saying that their children get bored having to politely sit through a multi course meal. So what? Let them be bored, I guarantee it won’t harm them.

you know what's amusing?
People keep banging on about "children need to be bored" when they justify not booking activities, not spending time with their children, not doing anything as a family at the weekend or on holiday

but god forbid a child would be bored for 20mn at diner.

I guess the difference is about the adult having to be involved or not.

Going to lob in a hand grenade of a different sort here.

From my personal experience, when DD was growing up, the best behaved children at meal times were the only children. This was based on those who came round to our house for meals or parties, or from when DD was of an age that we had to stay at the party venue ourselves. You could guarantee that the ones who sat at the table throughout the meal, ate properly and had decent table manners were the only children.

I always assumed it is because they are more used to interacting with adults without the distraction of other children. Hence, at meal times, sitting and having a conversation with your parents while you eat is just normal and even enjoyable.

Standard behaviour for French children

Clearly that’s bollocks @5foot5 since I have two perfectly well behaved kids. And I came across plenty of badly behaved onlies. In my experience they were the ones playing up to hog the attention and limelight of everyone round the table because they are not used to not being the sole focus of attention. Or does that sound like nonsense to you too 🙄

I can’t abide seeing children plugged into technology during dinner but I think having some colouring or puzzles to do is lovely. I’d probably encourage the children to go to the dance floor between courses if it wasn’t disturbing anybody and people were already dancing. It’s sociable and it’s holiday! British children, on the whole, are fine.

I don't know much about British kids. Mine are TCK so all mixed up ! I live in France and I have to say that French kids (in general) aren't that jolly. Their schooling has a lot to do with it. The learning by rote hasn't been abolished here yet and even small kids get mountains of homework. You see them on Sundays at sports clubs, immersed in their books. My kids have been in lots of different systems: UK, French, Swiss, American and International. Their take on French kids is (sorry a bit rude ) constipated! If there are any other French people on this thread - defy me !

I recommend reading ‘French children don’t throw food’ OP. My sister in law recommended it when I was pregnant with our first and I use it as my parenting bible 😂 the French approach has a very clear framework for rules and boundaries (unlike British / American more lax approach) and children are treated as adults in the making. It’s brilliant and overall makes family life much easier.

I lived and worked in France for two years, and I am bilingual. I taught languages from 1982 to 2014, by which time I had had enough of our permissive society, and all that this means for teachers (who basically have no power to discipline any more). My daughter is married to a Frenchman and they live in France with their two small children. French culture still has food and mealtimes at its very centre. Children grow up expecting to stay at the table and generally eat whatever they are served. Even French school dinners are proper three course meals, not the Fastfood rubbish which passes for school meals here. They are horrified when they come here on exchanges and see what goes on. It's a cultural difference. Personally, I think they are right and we are wrong, but you can't blame your kids for not understanding cultural differences unless they are old enough to understand an explanation of the same. I feel your pain. Just think of it this way, your children have had a genuine cultural experience by not being surrounded by other Brits on this holiday. That's what foreign travel is all about. It's enriching, if opportunities are seized and explained!

I definitely think there’s a cultural aspect. My daughter sat and ate in restaurants without any issues as a young child but we’re from a culture that include children in evenings out and also we feed them the same food we eat rather than ‘kids food’ at a different time which many people seem to do here. So our daughter ate the same food we ate right from the second she was weaned and with us at the same time. So a restaurant wasn’t a different experience really. And it isn’t about not being fun for kids, it’s about mealtimes being important within a family and including children rather than excluding them by giving them different food or having them eat alone before the adults or with a screen. Families from our culture love having children be a part of it all.

Yet certainly wouldn’t have been able to write about it on mumsnet! And AIBU is for people experiencing problems. If you came on and said, ‘my teenager is wonderful, absolutely no trouble’ you would seem insufferably smug, so you just don’t do it!

French kids are the best kids 😉

When my kids were a year old, they had a five course Christmas meal (pureed fennel and guinea fowl, Yule log etc[ at our bog standard state-run nursery. They're trained into it from tiny.