What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

Whereas when we lived in Cyprus there was the expectation your children could disappear at any point to be fed ice creams by the restaurant owner 😂

We recently spent a week in northern Italy. Every single family/child we observed was lovely - family members were interacting with children, children were playing and chatting with other people. At the swimming pool the children were a pleasure to watch - swimming, chatting to everyone, enjoying themselves. We saw no sign of screens. It was a shock coming home on the plane - British children lying on the floor in the airport, screaming, complaining, parents not engaged, no consideration for anyone else. What has gone wrong?

Is it acceptable to behave disgustingly just because you are in a cheap pub chain?

I recently went on holiday to the French Alps. We passed a kindergarten class on a mountain walk and almost every tiny said bonjour as we passed. The French set great store by politeness and basic manners and are intolerant of the things we tolerate. Like kids running around at mealtimes. Children are taught at an early age certain behaviour is expected at the table. When many British families don’t sit down to eat together, it’s not surprising kids don’t know what to do.

This is simply not true. I am half French, I spent half of my childhood in France, go back frequently to see friends and relatives. My experience is very different to yours, apparently.

LaMaG I see a lot of toddlers being sneaked raisens at our church 😁

@LaMaG

My Mum was Scottish Catholic born in the 40s. The reason she and her 12 siblings sat quietly through Mass was the threat us use of corporal punishment by her parents. Any child misbehaving was 'thrashed'.

In my head it's the 'mass' test, I'm Irish Catholic and in 1980s when i was young all children went to Mass, it was scandalous not to. A toddling child may be kept home but from around 2.5 or 3 they were old enough and everyone i know sat there through the most boring drivel imaginable without distractions. We were usually allowed a book but no talking or messing

This. My mother was a big believer in impeccable behaviour in church. My two (8 and 5) can sit through an hour long service without moving/talking or needing distracted however they are very much a minority. The same goes for eating out. However we often spend at least 45 minutes at the table at home, talking, finishing dessert etc.

There are so many of these threads and they’re always filled with utter bollocks about what French people are like and what a French upbringing is like. Usually from those books like French women don’t get fat and French children don’t throw food, which are about 50% made up nonsense to sell books, and the rest is the experience of a narrow demographic.

There's a whole parenting book about it - French Children Don’t Throw Food. It addresses the differences between French and UK/US parenting. Basically French parents enforce very clear, strong boundaries from pretty much the moment the child is born. Babies fit around parents lives, and parents are deemed as the ‘chief’ and the children subordinate, children must do what the parents say, or are punished. They also don’t pander to their children’s every moan/whinge - ignore them unless there is blood is the theory. Also, smacking is deemed socially acceptable and happens a lot.

Not that I’ve read it cover to cover after some stressful parenting moments or anything…

I hated that french kids don't throw food book. The insistence on doing what society deems you ought to all the bloody time - mum's seem to have it really tough in that book. Don't breastfeed, don't co sleep, don't put on too much weight, stay sexy 🤮

Unlike the majority of posters on this thread I will say it: my kid would be like your kid OP. He doesn't get screens at the table, but he would be dancing between courses and colouring at the table. He is neuro-typical, no ADHD.

My eldest (mid 20s) would also have behaved like your kids. So before phones were even a thing kids were doing this!

I do not see it as a moral failing, it harms no one and says nothing about you or your kids. Its fine!

Yes, famously the French don't eat pastries or bread..

Children behave according to the expectations that are set.
Different people have different expectations.
It's just like teaching, in my classroom we tidy up and stand silently behind our desks before we line up to leave the room. My colleague doesn't expect silence until they leave the room to walk to assembly. When I have her class they are silent behind chairs, when she has mine they talk until they leave the room. Children will generally do what is expected of them, adults set the expectations.

My children sit through meals easily, I expect it’s their 1/4 French genes.

Delayed gratification is non existent here any more. Adults who struggle with impulse control are raising children who simply don’t have a chance because “no” is something they never hear. I’m sure it is one of the reasons that there is a mass exodus of teachers.

I'm with the French on this. My kids weren't allowed to run around in restaurants when they were little. I know some kids can't manage that but there's also a lot of lazy parents in the UK who don't teach their kids how to behave in certain situations.

I totally agree with this. Why do your kids have to get up to dance whilst you’re at dinner? This is just poor behaviour which you’ve allowed to happen

A lot of British parenting is too lax. Parents want to be friends with their children instead of parenting them. A lot of British children abroad are embarrassing.

That's why there are do many badly behaved children.

The idea that children have to be silly and mess around to have fun. Children actually feel happier and safer with boundaries.

My children wouldn't dream of leaving the dinner table and can concentrate on a meal as we have always had family meals from 6 months old. No one leaves the table until everyone does. We have set meals, naps, bedtime. I don't tolerate poor behaviour. I also never shout and scream at them.

They run, giggle, play and are happy.

@FirstTimeNameChanger

That's your more individualistic cultural upbringing from the UK. Neither are wrong; just different.

The whole of society is working the same way around meal times. Whereas for every parent saying no tablet at the table in the UK, you’ll go out and find another child/ren at the table with tablets and actually that becomes its own peer pressure. While you’re invariably trying to interact with your child your child will always ask why can’t I have it? they have it. We haven’t cracked because we keep on saying those are our rules. We sit and play games like hangman, noughts and crosses so we’re all forced to be engaged.

As for multiple course meals, they eat like that at home/school etc too so it’s not abnormal. Similarly teachers are expected to sit in the dinning hall and have the same lunch as the kids. Lunch isn’t crowd pleasers, it’s normal food. There are cons to this method but not relevant to the discussion.

The French eat more slowly, their workplaces and schools are set up to take their time over lunch. My dd gets 20 mins for lunch and my workplace it's expected to eat at the desk. Very different attitudes to eating in general.

So as much as we might think British kids are rude for rushing their food and running off, we might also think our french colleagues are taking the piss by going out for lunch for an hour+

1/8th here

Totally works

nice to see the annual French kids are better thread going strong though

A balance is probably the answer, there's a wide gulf between having an 'iron fist' approach and always whipping a tablet out 'just in case'. Boundaries are important for children, sometimes having some peace is important for parents!

Read why French children don’t throw their food and you will find your answer