What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

I live in France and my observation is that they expect a lot from the kids in terms of mature behaviour. I think it’s also important to note that mealtimes are a BIG deal here. Like a ritual!!! It’s very important in french culture to have a proper sit down meal and that’s normal- it’s not formal in the setting sense but there is this general idea that mealtimes are for sitting and eating and there’s not this informality that I think we have sometimes as Brits. It’s not a case of the kids sitting and behaving for 90 mins; for them it’s just another meal time and that’s what you do because food is very important!!!! There’s no notion of informality or having a meal and doing something else at the same time. It’s mealtime and that’s it!! It’s one of the major differences in culture. Even at 18mo DS has a proper mealtime at nursery no fannying about.. main meal, second course and then desert. Glass of water and a bit of french bread!! It’s serious business! X

🤣🤣🤣

My siblings and I sat through Sunday mass and dinner at the table every evening without coercion. I have very happy memories of the conversations at those dinners.

No, it really is not. In common with other mothers of nineties babies on here, we worked hard to get our children to be well behaved members of society. Mealtimes at the table and not leaving the table until they had finished and asked to leave the table, bedtimes and routines were the norm. Discipline was important as were good manners. We loved our children but we certainly did not give in to their every whim. The word no meant no. They were happy because they knew where they stood. Boundaries are vital yet so many children seem to have very few of them these days. Colouring books are ideal when children might need to be kept occupied during a long wait. I was always told how well behaved my children were. There was no luck involved. It was hard work but the most rewarding of all. Oh, and my oldest has ASD and went to a special school.

This is such a good point. French young kids are all in state maternelles sitting down for lunchtimes properly.

Same here violinist. My children were certainly not born docile. They have more energy than my brain can handle and are very dynamic, feisty little firecrackers. BUT they know when to play and when to behave. They enjoy and respect mealtimes. They respect any time when they should behave.Because we taught them to not because they're docile. We taught them boundaries whilst allowing them to have amazing fun when it was time to.

This was my first thought.

I fully agree with this.

Sounds like civilisation. Something we're sorely missing with kids over here. Imagine the difference it would make if they all knew how to behave. The adults too. Maybe some countries aren't as far gone as the general public in the UK. It's just here that's a complete shitshow.

I am part of a French expat page on Facebook and they do warn people when they think of moving that their attitudes towards the disabled are 50 years behind the UK. It is true.

I love hearing "it takes a village" at this point. It couldn’t be less true. Here the village is ruled by the balaclava wearing, knife wielding groups of kids. No parents to be seen unless their progeny have been challenged, then it's who can kick off the loudest. If the village were scum to begin with, is it any wonder that it got worse with every spewed out generation? Police can't or won't keep them suppressed. So we just have to put up with it. It's not worth speaking out when the evil little cunts aged 10+ are ready (in big groups) to come at you with a knife, or target your home and smash your windows.

Maybe because here in Great Britain we allow children to be children.

Plenty of time in years to come for them to sit around bored out of politeness for a 90 minute 3 course meal!

We allow children to be children by pacifying them with screens?

Our kids are 6 and 9 and we've only recently started eating out as they were basically too young last year and couldn't sit still for a long while/wouldn't eat their meal anyway. I refuse to use tablets in restaurants, although will allow colouring/puzzle books.

Not sure what is different but I find it very difficult to get them to sit on a chair for dinner at home for longer than around 20 mins. Constantly getting up, etc.

This. The kids are coerced into submitting to the adults. This superficial "good behaviour" isn't the same as a healthy family dynamic at all.

^

And herein lies the problem. Just have them shit on the table and eat soup with their hands why dontcha

Race to the bottom or what

Interesting actually because the other day I was on the London Underground and a whole group of young French teens on a sort of school excursion came on they were clearly on an exchange type trip due to their logos on backpacks etc
they were running riot and a seat became available and 3 of them nearly knocked my child over. Don’t think they seemed v diff than a group of young British teens.

The post above yours by @LordSalem is living the life of a world where children have been given such freedom without boundaries

My mother is French, and there is a great deal of importance play song meal time and food in general. I think some cultures are just like this, Italy, Greece etc. I live in Greece at the moment and noticed kids at the table for a long time as well, even though some of them do have screens, or I’ll let to run around and play. But meals can take a long time.

not just my mother, but a lot of the French friends that I have, and other friends family members put a very big importance on trying new foods, tasting food, enjoying your food, and I think it’s a different mentality. We were also taught to have a good table manners and not to put our elbows on the table…

I have a disability, and there are some positives about France when it does come to disability. There are some incentives that I have not found anywhere else, like the priority line at the supermarket if you do have a disability, and not just in the supermarket, a lot of packaging now has a Braille, again, there are things out there, but you have to know about them and know where to find them. Last year, I attended a conference on disability in France, and there actually is quite a lot inside of the medical domain that I attended. yes, there are ignorant people, and yes, some attitudes can be very dismissive and very arrogant towards someone with a disability. But I have experienced worse in the UK. So again, each country has its own way of doing things and I don’t think you can compare, each country has their own way of life. There are some positives, some negatives, and everything in between.

Exactly.

Why would an adult be 'sitting around bored' at a nice meal? I suppose they might, if they had never learned the value of enjoying food and conversation together.

Maybe that babyish, self-centred adult would prefer to be sitting alone and scrolling Instagram?

These are life skills. I'm with the French on this – mealtimes are extremely important. People are really doing their kids a disservice by not teaching them how to behave properly at a meal.

My parents were very strict about food growing up. All meals eaten round the table, perfect behaviour and you know what? I hated it. Who wants to be so stuffy and formal after a hard day? As an adult I eat on the sofa in front of the tv (although I don't have kids) and much prefer it. I think we place so much stock on pointless things like no elbows on the table and it just turns eating a bowl of pasta into a massive hassle.

Exactly, all this ‘well we just let kids be kids’ is a cop out, just parents trying to deflect the fact they can’t be bothered to discipline or really engage with their children and would rather plonk them on a tablet so they can have ‘me time’. We talk about resilience all the time and how it seems to be very low in British children, yet apparently expecting a child to sit and chat to their family for an hour without messing with screens or running about is ‘suppressing’ them or punitive. Madness.

Another take on this is that sitting and really talking to your child over a meal every day is a great way of bringing them on - in terms of speech and language, social skills, and as they get older things like critical thinking. Discussing their day, events in the news, abstract chat about whatever topic floats up, is really good for children and opportunities to do this are already thin on the ground given our long working hours.

So yes I think proper mealtimes without screens or distractions are very important.

I don't know anyone who eats pop tarts but then I was saying to DH yesterday I don't know anyone who eats ready meals regularly either

Yes because the Great British child is so very happy at the moment. Not.

I equate letting children be children with allowing them to play outside and use their imaginations in play, not with shackling them to screens. Time and place.
I actually think my children loved sitting with us as 'little adults'. It was a chance for them to have our undivided attention and feel equal. But then we weren't on screens either. Maybe I was lucky bringing up children when I did.

It's insane, isn't it?

Every time we eat out, most of the kids have screens at the table.

That is not letting kids be kids- it's drugging them so you don't have to deal with them during the meal.