What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

Really? No hot chocolate for breakfast any more? No buttered baguette with a slab of chocolate in for an after school snack? These are quite traditional French things!

I grew up in one of the countries mentioned on this thread where mealtimes are big deal and you sit with the whole family, don't get up, don'tdo anything else blah blah blah. It was so restrictive it caused me enormous anxiety around the table and mealtimes, to the extent I would be physically unable to eat or even be sick. Yes I still have food issues decades later!

This will get me shot down but I always was strict at mealtimes, no screens and no running around until after meals. I also tried to avoid restaurants with children’s play areas within especially the soft play type pubs because I always thought they were feral and didn’t teach how to behave in a restaurant/meal times.

so many of the self-righteous comments here are exactly the reason why I am terrified to take my severely autistic son anywhere 😞

This is what I have an issue with. Where did it start from?

if I was to go back to where I was born and where my family were for generations and generations, I wouldn’t be welcomed because I my accent. The entitlement is overwhelming.

somewhere someone’s backside needs to be seriously kicked.

How would you know what people eat in their own homes day to day?
Unless you regularly sit around chatting about how you could never eat a pop tart then it’s an odd claim to make.

Because of my accent…

I am autistic so have sympathy.

Blame the millions of NT who insist on screens at the table.

We didn’t have screens when my DC were young (smartphones weren’t a thing til they were tweens), but we always took colouring/sticker books to restaurants here and in holiday, plus if somewhere with a play area they’d run off etc. I think that’s much more ‘normal’ than sitting still for 90mins. I suppose it is conditioning though - if you’ve been ‘trained’ at a young age that’s what you do. it’s just not the culture here.
I hate seeing kids plugged into screens at meals out though I have to say!

If French children don’t throw food, it’s because French parents don’t allow it.
I might add that a good many British parents don’t allow it, either.

but why do you care if they are on screens? How is it any of your business and how do YOU know who is or isn’t ND, seeing as it is often an invisibly disability and whether that use of a screen is or isn’t substantially justified. I just think everyone should mind their own, life is hard enough 🤷🏼‍♀️

Some of my family are French and I’ve lived in France previously. The general attitude to disability and SEN is appalling. I wouldn’t even go to France for a holiday now, definitely wouldn’t bring my autistic child up there.

I don't have kids but I can't think of anything sweeter than a primary aged kid getting up for a dance between courses.

I don’t get the issue with dancing at a holiday resort either

Screens I wouldn’t do

This reply is such a good point to the archetypal British response within.

The whole point is that they don’t have plenty of time to become great adults. It starts young. Just because you’re able to hold a decent conversation over dinner doesn’t mean your progeny are automatically going to be able to, by osmosis. It takes hard work…and I think that (or the lack thereof in modern British society) is the underlying point.
It’s also a circular argument because it mostly comes down to education, and this is where France (and most of the EU) is miles ahead of us in the UK.

Funnily enough, they’re also miles ahead of the other massive English-speaking population in the western hemisphere.

Education, welfare supporting the ability to educate and be educated and a culture that respects education = bedrock of a good society. Something we have lost, to a large degree. Anyway, rant over.

It depends how you bring your kids up. If you've always taken them to restaurants and had sit down mealtimes together from a young age they learn these things. They know you sit at the table until you've finished, they know to chat with their family, they know screens, phones etc are bad manners.
I've worked in restaurants and you sometimes see kids take one bite then want to run off etc and just assume they haven't been taught basic dining etiquette.

My friend’s son has been diagnosed with autism. She doesn’t take him out to restaurants because it’s not an enjoyable experience for him or her. Not because of other people judging, but because he finds the whole thing very stressful-the sitting down, the noise of chatter and plates and cutlery clinking. He’d have a meltdown-so they don’t do it. To me this is a perfectly reasonable stance. I can’t believe that restaurants are full of ND kids as an explanation of behaviour when the overall diagnosis is below 1%.

😆 of course they don’t eat baguettes or croissants!!! All yummy but pure sugary rubbish.

I’d say that’s true, but only partly. French kids breakfasts are a sugar fest.

Absolutely. I see it every working day.
We have such a huge increase in children displaying behavioural issues, more children who have extremely high needs.

Why?
Many issues but for some children it is lack of parenting, lack of expectation and lack of boundaries.
For some children it is the impact of parental choice, home background, circumstance, sometimes from their parents too. Dealing in primary schools with the extreme behaviour of children aged 9 and 10 year olds, withdrawing from their vape is horrific.
Supporting children with attachment disorders or those from parents who are cocaine addicts where the children basic needs are not met ( sofa surfing primary kids, hungry, disorganised, no order in their lives, parents not able to care).

For those with SEND needs, services just can't be spread far enough to support those with genuine needs.

Jesus Christ!!!!

Heartbreaking isn’t it, when your child is diagnosed you have this completely soul crushing fear that people will judge them for harmless behaviours they have no control over and threads like this make you realise it’s very true 😞

And what about gouter in the afternoon . A piece of chocolate in a baguette seems to be the norm every afternoon.

I live in a town with lots of language schools , I hate to burst the bubble but the absolute worst are the groups of French teens. They absolutely never move out of the way for anyone even elderly ladies or pushchairs , they shout at the tops of their voices, seem to all smoke in public and do not take kindly to be asked not to. In fact they do not take kindly to being asked to do anything by anyone who is not French and I watched open mouthed as a group openly mocked a young blind woman with a white stick last week. I am sure they are angels at home but become feral when off the lead in a ‘lesser’ country

Agree. Some people seem incredibly rigid in their thinking, bordering on miserable if they think a young child dancing during a long dinner on holiday is behaviour which needs to be stamped out!

Who said I'm judging your child for their diagnosis? I'm sick of this crap. I have an SEN child with a diagnosis who is also difficult. Look at all the responses from people working with kids. I'm one of them. There is an epidemic of parents who have money for dodgy private psychiatrists but no desire to raise their kids with any discipline, routine or actual knowledge about ND. They throw around diagnosis as a reason for everything their child does, even if it has nothing to do with their behaviour. They've reduced their typical kids to a diagnosis. Everything is their diagnosis. Some of these kids aren't allowed to just be a kid and make a mistake! They had to have a reason. It's always their diagnosis. It is so damaging and it's happening more and more.