What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

No they aren't.

I doubt I want to learn anything from the French.

And, yes, our pandering doesn't seem to be making our children any happier. I do think oftentimes that children thrive and feel safe in a secure environment where they know there are clear boundaries. That doesn't mean abuse and punishment and there is a difference. Many parents now though seem to think it is either one extreme or the other. Children will not suffer and, in fact, may be reassured by being told 'no' because some things in life are simply not acceptable.

I have also recently been in France, I did notice in general kids seemed better behaved (I.e. quieter/stiller!) at restaurants etc. I put it down to the more formal dining culture.

Over here though I think it's a lot of luck. I have a child who struggles to sit still for a full meal out. We love eating out and child has had meals at pubs/restaurants at least weekly since birth. No screens. Lots of interaction. In later years maybe colouring or books. Reiterated expectations to sit down etc. But still, finds it very difficult. My second child, will sit for ages. Parenting has been v similar!

I just love the audacity of some people on here, let’s go on an internet forum mainly for MUMS mostly based in BRITAIN and slag off British kids and British parenting. & if you don’t agree they’re all awful little brats who can’t sit still and need a diagnoses to excuse it then you’re part of the problem and should probably just swallow some home truths and accept we’ve fucked it all 🤣

There’s nothing wrong with my BRITISH kids! French kids are probably nice too! Get to f.

Actually, the French have way worse suicide rates than we do.

The assessments are grueling and extremely thorough. Nobody is getting an ADHD or ASD assessment without being actually neurodivergent, it's a myth. You are assessed by a panel of different professionals.
As for claiming DLA, it's based on care needs, not diagnosis and you have to show proof.

Me too. I’m in Scotland and the waiting list for CAHMS in my local authority is nearly two years. Some genuinely neurodiverse children struggle for such a long time, as do those with genuine ADHD who need a diagnosis for medication purposes. And I’ve taught some kids with ADHD for whom the right meds were literally life changing. But the waiting list is packed full of people seeking a diagnosis for their children unnecessarily. My personal highlight was being asked once if the parent could now claim disability living allowance for the child because we were querying whether or not their child had dyslexia.

They are available in U.K. in all big supermarkets.

My mum was a dinner lady in a primary school and she couldn’t get over the number of children starting in reception who didn’t know how to use a knife and fork.
She made it her mission to teach them.
Growing up, me and my brother knew that manners at the table were non negotiable. She wasn’t French either 😁
I did rebel slightly - I still hold my knife and fork the wrong way round. But she couldn’t argue with that because she was left handed.

It is expectations but it's also practice. Our DCs wouldn't have got up in the middle of a meal but we took them out for dinner a lot, even when they were tiny and in a high chair. When they were little, we did engage with them a lot - probably what sarky posters on here would call 'performance parenting' ie chatting to them. And actually that disdain for parents actually parenting their DCs is part of the problem in some parts of the UK.
We'd often have other adults come up to us in restaurants to compliment us on our DC. Which was welcome because you often feel you're failing at everything as a parent
Excepting DCs who have additional needs, most DCs at school can sit quietly regardless of the noise and excitement going on elsewhere in the school. It's not that DCs can't behave or sit nicely.
If British DCs are worse - and I'm not convinced they are - it's because their parents make excuses for them rather than teaching them how to behave.

Usually yes if the assessment staff do their job correctly and the parents don’t lie etc. Its not infallible. And it doesn’t stop them taking up a years long waiting list space while attempting to be diagnosed.

Thought so. Which explains the rude poster commenting on my post was likely American.
Like they say, go figure.

So my children were brought up in the 90s . No screens but also they were not subjected to spending time having to eat for any time with adults! They had their food hours before us . They were in bed before we ate …so easy!! Before anyone worries about their social skills not eating with parents…all perfectly functioning,sociable adults who enjoy eating with their parents!

A few reasons , children are very used to go out from babies , plus French are more strict with them .
This being said and I’m currently in France , I can assure you they fo throw tantrums and misbehave too

The posters who've said French children sit down for a meal at nursery - this probably has a lot to do with it. There's an entitlement and expectation of child care for all from about 3 months old in France, so the " parenting" is very standardised and done by state child care in the main, and the expectations have been the same for many generations. Diversity of any kind is less favoured.
We just don't have the same shared conformity in the UK, starting with childcare, no one has a confident sense of what parenting should look like as advice and fashions constantly change. And we are frazzled with the past few years.
Having frazzled parents who lack confidence and don't stick to a predictable strict routine is pretty difficult for any children but particularly if you are ND. It could be that is why there's such a low diagnosis rate in France- it's not causing an obvious impairment except in the most severe cases. ( although at what cost to the chuck, we don't know) And we don't often see children with really severe ASD or ADHD in restaurants here either.
Having said that the smacking thing seems horrendous but it was extremely common to see toddlers smacked in the supermarket aisles even 15 years ago ( Scotland)!!!

Yes, most supermarkets have an international shelf or two. A common thing for English kids to eat?

In honesty, my reason for seeking diagnosis was to unlock reasonable adjustments at work. But then I actually need those adjustments. I don't think I could even get DLA because I can sort of cope with most things (but not cooking or hoovering).

You have a child with Sen and a toddler. My asd boy would be melting down at what you described.

Generally tho I think Britains are more passive in their parenting than other countries

French/Spanish/Italian children are far more mature and well behaved. British children are just left to run riot a lot of the time.

Children!!!! Not chuck !

You can buy pop tarts in Tesco, Asda, sainsburies even the centre aisle at Aldi sometimes.

From googling it looks like they have lower rates, they also tend to stick autistic children in care homes.

@Buttons232
I love France but would hate to raise children there. I remember pushing my three year old around a supermarket and getting very dirty looks because she was talking to me and I was talking back to her. She wasn’t rowdy, rude, hyperactive. She was just talking. Her behaviour was absolutely fine but clearly not acceptable in France.

That ⬆️ will be a reaction to having an older toddler in a pushchair. Seen as something awful and British in many a place on the continent.

Mine have autism and ADHD we're British they sit until they're finished eating. Not the case at home but when they're out they need someone supervising at all times. So they know if we are still sat at the table we haven't finished.