Does anyone ever feel sorry for MIL’s?

[MrsPPP]

I am a Mother to all boys and am nowhere near being a Grandmother or having a daughter in law, so me asking this is nothing to do with my personal situation right now, but it definitely makes me worry for the future.

I see so many posts about imposing MIL’s etc…. Usually in these posts, OP is female, raved about what a blessing her Mother has been and then rants about DH’s family being imposing or coming round to visit too often.
Are DH’s family not equal? Are they not also Grandparents?

I totally understand that this question is generalised and that some people will have valid reasons (abuse, alcohol issues etc).

I just hope that any future DIL of mine will accept that two sets of loving grandparents is surely better for the children. Also, who doesn’t want extra help?

@Screamingabdabz Why blame the DIL instead of the "gormless" son? Why are you expecting women to make up for their men's faults? This is so misogynistic- the man is useless and uninterested in his own parents so the woman should work extra hard to make up for it.

So? The analogy stands.

I adore my MIL. We don't see much of her because we live in different countries, but she's such a wonderful woman. I'm packing up a box of presents for as we speak.
I have 3 boys, so I do worry that we won't be close to them/grandkids in the future. But then, a daughter is no guarantee of that either. I have no independent relationship with my mum at all.

Yes but amongst themselves, they daren't say anything to their wives/ girlfriend's. However the wives / Gfs can say plenty about their MIls.

Imagine a man on here saying his MIl was interfering and coming round too much, and that she was laways wanting to see the kids. He would get short bloody shrift!

I agree with all the comments here that it isn't all MILs and it depends on the circumstances.

Lots of people don't like my MIL because she is bossy and a bit tactless. I do like her and love her and I realise that she is actually quite an insecure and vulnerable person. I did find her hard to deal with in my 20s - she was overbearing and hard work and I was young and put up with stuff I didn't like from her because I didn't know how to deal with it and disliked her behind the scenes. In my 30s, I try to adopt more of a firm but fair approach and I try to be proactive and involve her in things with the grandchildren. Unlike in my early 20s, I realise that I am mother of grandkids and there's a bit of a shift in power - I can be assertive and hold a lot of cards, but I should be kind and magnanimous too.

One thing I would say is that often men are not very good at establishing boundaries with their mothers, so they keep their heads down for an easy life, or even encourage their mother's overstepping because they don't want to just be a grown up about things. I think daughters often go through a period of potential conflict and growth in terms of their relationships with their mothers that some men don't as much. Some MILs do take advantage and see their relationship with a son who never says no to them, nods along with their point of view and does everything they say as very close, when actually that's not really the basis of a close relationship between adults. That was probably my husband in his 20s - I'm glad we didn't have kids very early in our relationship, because it's definitely evolved to a position in which we are firmer, clearer and more of a team.

but what effort have you made with said partner before she even got pregnant?

Will you find it reasonable to see her once a month, or a few times a year, but then suddenly expect something to change?

What stops you from OFFERING to babysit, offering to stay with baby in her house while the mum has a nap, offering to help out with the house chores for example? (all things most mums will do).

What stops you from offering to take the baby/toddler to a baby class, with or without mum, once a week to give her 1 hour break?

It's also a massive assumption that the other grand-parents are retired, free to babysit whenever needed, don't have other grand-kids that need help with.. and that you will be put aside.

I don’t have any daughters. Fate saw fit to only give me sons, however desperately I longed for a daughter (and this is one of the reasons why). So I’ll never have a MOTHER-daughter relationship. I’ll never have that closeness and intimacy. And my eldest son is 3 and a half, so I’m not going to be MIL to anyone for a long time yet. But I hope to god he doesn’t end up with someone who has the same shitty attitude as you.

WHY do you even want to be involved and force your way to someone who is not your daughter, who you are not related to, when they are in and just out of hospital exactly?

I never understood this tbh. Why is there a race/competition to see a baby who has just left the womb and even forgetting the woman in the scenario who may or may not feel up for such visits or involvement just yet. Bonds are formed over time with maintained effort, not simply because someone was there the first few days or month. Babies don’t even know they are a separate entity from their mum until around 6 months.

My in-laws met my oldest at a week old and the youngest at a month old while my mum met my oldest at 6 weeks, my dad at 11 months, and the youngest, mum met at 2 weeks and my dad at 5 mo. They live in another country while my in-laws live in the same country and are about 5 hrs drive away from us. My in-laws see our children way more than my parents do and both our children have a bond with all of them despite the distances.

Take some responsibility. MY relationship with MY mother was, of course, closer and more important to me than MY relationship with DH's mother.

My DC have an absolutely wonderful relationship with MIL. she is a lovely and engaged grandparent who has the most astonishing patience to sit and let DD prattle on about her barbie dream house or watch DS shooting his 5000th football in a row. But that relationship has NOT been created by me, it has been created by my DH. He is close to her and he has made the effort. He takes the children to see her, he includes her in things he's doing with the children when she's visiting and so on. And when she's not local (she lives away some of the time), DH is the one who calls her on FaceTime and gets the DC to talk to her or who hands DD his phone so she can practice her piano with granny "watching".

Yes, I facilitate it in as much as I tend to host family get togethers and will invite his mum etc etc, but DH is in charge and she, to give her the due she deserves, absolutely appreciates it and responds in kind.

That sums up what my friends who are parental grandparents experience. It seems to happen gradually and each reason for them not seeing the grandkids very often is made to sound so reasonable.

The paternal grandparents love their grandchildren just as much as the other set, but when the parents lives are structured this way, the DIL holds all the cards. I see how it happens, I see how it sounds reasonable to the parents, but it's really sad for the paternal grandparents.

It's made me grateful to have daughters.

It really doesn’t. There isn’t a male equivalent to childbirth that happens with the same frequency. Making up something totally random and hugely unlikely is not the same thing.

Im team MIL, I love her, my own mother is nuttier than squirrel shit and (unbeknownst to her) is no longer allowed to have my kids unsupervised.

"my friends who are paternal grandparents" even

I’m not sure about this. They want to see the baby and cuddle the baby. That’s not the same as helping. We had that classic divide and I was shocked by it as usually my mil is very helpful. But I had a baby and my mum directed Dh and my dad to tidy things and do washing and prepare meals and she cut my steak for me so I could eat ti one handed. And she cuddled baby when I offered. My mil on the other hand came and spent a week taking my baby. She would come in in the morning and say oh he’s fed I’ll take him for you, and she didn’t give him back unless I asked, when sometimes she’d argue with me and I’d have to think of polite ways to say GIVE ME MY BABY. I was going bananas after a week of this, felt like I was running a hotel running around cleaning up after them and cooking, when it had been a hard birth and total adjustment shock and I’d barely been cleaning or cooking for us. Dh had to have a word.

I think some of the issues stem from so much focus being on the first few weeks after a baby arrives. Trying to establish breastfeeding and recovering from birth meant I wanted my mum’s support. For me, not the baby. MIL understood that. She didn’t expect the 2am phone call when we both had a stomach bug and DH was away. She knew my mum was around a lot more. She visited the new baby several times but wasn’t pushy during the newborn phase and it meant I never felt I had to fight for my boundaries. Once we’d got through the first period and I had recovered, things were much more equal. She quickly developed a lovely relationship with her granddaughter. She could come in and scoop her up, change her without asking, make suggestions that I didn’t take as criticisms because she’d been so respectful of me at the beginning. The first few weeks matter. Now DD is eleven and has two beloved grandmas. She doesn’t know that only one of them cleaned our bathroom and held me while I cried for the first three weeks of her life!

Maybe maternal grandparents can give some time to paternal grandparents. If you have daughters and there is an event which your grandchildren are involved in that your daughter has suggested you come to, maybe ask if paternal grandparents are coming too.

All GPs lived way from us (MIL and FIL separated), my parents slightly closer, but none popping in distance. We tried to be fair and shared events between them where possible

I know there isn't a male equivalent of childbirth!

The point is that it is completely normal and understandable that a person, any person, who has just been through something traumatic and needs a bit of support will lean on their own family to provide that support. This is in no way unreasonable or unfair to any given other person, no matter how much that other person feels it should be otherwise.

But @saraclara @AngeloMysterioso

Isn't that because the son hasn't stepped up? I mean, if my husband wants to take our kids to his parents, I am quite happy to go or for him to take them on his own if I have something else that I want to do at home? I don't necessarily spend much time thinking about when we would go to them next, but my husband calls them at the weekend and makes plans with them, which I will go to or use as an opportunity to do some chores (we both work in the week, so we don't have unlimited weekend time to get stuff done as well as do a lot of visiting etc). Maybe raising sons to see themselves as involved and responsible parents is also part of it?

Maybe I am unusual as I am not super close to my parents, but I invite both sets to Christmas Day, try to ensure equality for key events.

I think it’s also because DIL feels she can be more honest with her own parents about how she wants the DC to be looked after if they’re babysitting. Whereas it’s more awkward looking like you’re setting rules for somebody you’re not related to and have more of a ‘polite’ relationship with.

I have a son and aim to build my future DIL’s trust by asking her what she would like if/when the babies are born. When she would like me to visit, what I can do to help, make it clear I’ve brushed up on the latest baby care guidance if she ever wants me to babysit (because it changes all the time and new mums obviously want to follow it to the letter!), what would you like me to give them for tea. That sort of thing. I won’t make her feel spiky or awkward for being a bit PFB.

Hopefully then over time she will grow to trust me and I can have a close relationship with GC as well as her.

OP. I agree with @StopStartStop. Your language suggest an attitude that is potentially problematic. Your not entitled to anything, it needs to be earned through a respectful and mutually beneficial relationship.

I had a great relationship with my PILs (they had 4 boys) until I got pregnant and then all these jealousy issues arose around being equal to my family. MIL treated every boundary we had as a personal attack. My family understood my boundaries even if they didn’t agree, they respected them. Ended up with a huge falling out a couple of weeks after giving birth. Had to go NC for 2 years. They are back in our lives but still have no respect for boundaries. All dressed up as caring for ‘our grandkids’ but very possessive and completely misses the fact that me and my DH are the parents.

one of the big issues that I think doesn’t get spoken about is that sons don’t always have the best relationship with their parents. They may be passive in their relationship with their parents until they have a family of their own and then they realise that their parents behaviour isn’t just impacting them, it’s having an impact on their wife and child. They then will put in boundaries which the parent don’t like and blame on the DIL.

My DH had an absolutely fine relationship with his parents. Loved them. Lived as far away from them as he could. Called them once every 2 weeks. Rarely saw them. I encouraged a closer relationship. There was a reason he didn’t want to be anywhere near them but he didn’t have access to that until he had to stand up for me when our child was born. Their entitled rage and the attack on us that has followed has destroyed the relationship.

are you close to your sons? Do you respect their autonomy? Do you encourage them to think and talk about their feelings? Are you comfortable with them disagreeing with you? Do you have a strategy for dealing with conflict? If you can answer yes to these questions then you should be absolutely fine.

I don't recognise this at all. My DiL and I are not competing over my son (or her husband if you prefer!) She has her role, I have mine. Neither of us need to be 'paramount' because she's his number 1 life partner and I'm his number 1 mum and the roles couldn't be more different. To feel the need to make the point that as a wife you're number one smacks a little of trying to encourage competition where none need apply.
I love my DiL like a daughter (while obviously knowing she has a mum, so that's not reciprocal, but she loves me and im fortunate in that) and I'm delighted my son has her in his life. She has no notion of usurping my role as mother, and I'm not my sons ex, so what is there to be jealous of?

You're still seeing it as a competition between you and the DIL's parents. If DIL sees her best friend once a week, will you feel like that's unfair too? Or does DIL get to choose who she sees?

Take DIL's parents out of it, and then if you feel like you aren't seeing your GC enough, take it up with your son. He could insist on a visit at the weekend. Nowt stopping him.

There are a lot of cliches and societal expectations in this hypothetical of yours. For a start, this issue of the man working long hours, never around etc is one that I think most of us are starting to see is a flawed system and when I look around me, men who are still insisting this is the only way, are finding they are less and less likely to receive blanket agreement from their wives, extended family etc. Or even workplaces in some cases.

I would encourage you to bring up your sons to resist this sort of thinking and to realise that they should want and fight for an active role in family life from the start.

Most of the men I know today, have at least some flexibility and/or prioritise their family. I will never forget the friend who, when her second dc was about 12 weeks, jumped at a last minute opportunity to come to an event with me. Her DH worked long hours in the city and had recently started a new job so he couldn't just leave early, but he promised faithfully to leave at 6:30 on the dot, so that he could be home in time for her and I to take the 7:30 train back to London. I went to pick her up just before to find him sitting on the sofa, still wearing his suit and tie and feeding the baby while simultaneously reading a book to the toddler.... That's what you should be aspiring to for your sons.

Ditto, this man and my DH and many of the other men I know regularly take their DCs to visit their family. They prioritise their parents and their children. And as a result, their children have great relationships with their paternal grandparents.

Oh yeah? I can see the AIBU thread now.

”I work part-time and I take my DC to see my parents every Wednesday. DH works full time and is insisting that we spend every Sunday with his parents because MIL would like to see my DC as much as my parents do. AIBU to think the weekends are family time, MIL is being entitled and Dh needs to stop pandering to her and being such a ridiculous Mummy’s boy?”

I know exactly how that thread would go and it would not be in the DH and MILs favour.

Because it isn't about the dil!! It's about the grandparents relationship with the child of their child!! They SHOULD be starting on the same base level, the mil is dads mother, the other grandparent is mums mother, why on earth should mums mother be more important in the grandchild's life than their dads parent. You are making the argument that the dil is the most important person in the equation and that their wishes are paramount , they're not.