Paternal leave for undeserving man

[Singlemum19802023]

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

Actually, I’m pretty sure NatWest will have factored this in to their policy. The reason most of these policies will be straightforward and based on having a child is the challenge of defining ‘engagement’ and policing it. Policy makers don’t live in a vacuum and we all know parents who are more or less engaged with their children. So they’ll have considered fathers who do sod all but decided it’s still worth offering for those who do want to be actively engaged.

I like the point about making things more equal in terms of promotion but totally shocked that they don’t ask for proof.

What on earth are talking about?

You’re one, rare example shouldn’t mean the whole system is affected. There’s always one who will take the piss with any benefit.

He obvs hasn’t thought of the affect on his career, while he’s off 6 months, other people gain advantage… plus, if it ever comes out what he’s done, and it might well when someone figures out that you live so far apart people at work are going to think he’s an arsehole.
His managers won’t be happy, they’ll think he’s untrustworthy and sneaky.

So honestly? He’ll get come back from this, but more important it shows what kind of a person he really is - you’re deffo better off not being with him

I think it is a good idea, but maybe employers could then link this somehow to automatic child maintenance payments rather than single mums having to jump through hoops and apply through CMS.

@Sissynova i agree with you about the current statutory leave setting families up unequally from the off. But a handful of large organisations offering equal leave isn’t going to change things for the better for society as a whole. This policy is an employment perk for men in my view, being dressed up as something that’s supposed to help women.

That would take a change in legislation.

It isn't being dressed up as something that is supposed to help women though. Of course paternity leave is for men, why is that wrong?
Are you suggesting maternity leave is just to help men?
Men need to bond with their babies and establish a family life with a young baby just as women do.
The more places that voluntarily offer enhanced leave for men and women then the more pressure there is for statutory to improve as society progresses.
Genuinely no idea what your issue is. The actions of one man have no baring on society's need for parental leave in all forms.

Surely that is more likely to be a barrier than a help? Overall I imagine absent fathers are not rushing to tell everyone they work with that they've had a baby they don't plan on being involved with and taking paternity leave for.
Most won't be taking the leave and the mother would need to apply through CMS anyway.

Better paternity leave greatly helps women in recruitment and promotion. Whilst fertile women are seen as less secure members of the workforce due to the possibility of pregnancy and the ensuing maternity leave, they are not chosen for many opportunities. Now more and more men are having paternity leave, we have more employers have less reason to reject a woman on grounds of possible fertility. Of course this happens, although no one would be stupid enough to put that down as a reason for the rejection.

Not really the point I know but I wish this "we were pregnant" nonsense would stop. Particularly in a case like this where the father isn't even involving himself.

@Sissynova I’m probably just taking it too personally as a female who’s worked in the FS sector for too long!

It just really frustrates me that we’ve taken a long time to get to a position where a number of employers in this space offer women 6 months fully paid mat leave (don’t know when NatWest introduced, seems to be 2021 from what I found online but perhaps someone else can confirm) but only a short while later men are getting the same. Yes it’s a good thing for those male staff eligible and their families, but the cynic in me wonders about the decision making process, especially when they are a predominantly male organisation at senior levels. It seems that they’re happy to spend more facilitating pat leave for their male employees than they are mat leave for their female staff.

As for benefitting women and society - this is cited in their press release re the policy and their gender pay gap reporting. In my view, if large institutions really want to influence culture change across the sector then they could consider things like only partnering with suppliers, advisors, auditors etc that share their family friendly values.

As I say, probably taking too much of an interest in this as an issue and have derailed the thread - apologies!

It seems that they’re happy to spend more facilitating pat leave for their male employees than they are mat leave for their female staff.

I’m failing to see the logic in this. Both are entitled to six months on full pay so it’s a universal benefit for new parents. Can you explain your thought process?

@Blossomtoes they’ll be able to claim the statutory amounts for both mat and pat leave back, so they’ll get more of the cost of a mat leave covered by the gov than a pat leave.

If you look at their pay gap reporting (tried to attach a photo but can’t get it to work), women tend to occupy the lower paid roles, so the average male employee will be on a higher salary than the average female.

So, the business is covering more of the cost of their more expensive employees leave.

(not that I’m suggesting they shouldn’t cover this cost, it’s the fact that it’s taken years for women to get this level of paid leave despite the fact it’s less costly that gets me)

The problem is they have to have one rule for all and this is the result of trying to give time to involved parents. It's a disgrace he hasn't made the effort to spend time with his child during this time. Not a lot you can do about it though. If you go to the company I doubt it will make any difference they can't tell him how he should be spending his time off. I'm sure people in his work will know the situation; If he's all over SM with it. I doubt they will be impressed, I'm sure there will have been private conversations about it but nothing will be done. I would just try to let it go and move on

I wouldn't call it an affront to women. And maybe that woman should take a little more responsibility with her ability to have children. If you are using a dual form of contraception the likelihood of getting pregnant is near impossible.

Of course it’s the woman’s fault

Actually after 12 rounds of chemo I was told I wouldn’t be able to have children so please don’t try to insinuate that i’m irresponsible for conceiving accidentally.

That's it..blame the woman..

Well she has to take 50% of the blame, surely?

50% of the blame for what? She had a baby, and she's now looking after that baby. What's she "guilty" of?

I used to work in HR 10 years ago. We had a male member of staff take his paternity leave except he went on holiday rather than actually helping the mother. He was stupid enough to post pictures on Facebook. He was told the company would no longer pay for his paternity as he was abusing the system.

Maternity leave is to recover from birth first of all, men don’t really have that worry, do they? Then there’s breast feeding and childcare. Men are simply there to help the mother and care for their baby as and when they can, so totally different situation.

It seems to me like this is basically becoming a reward scheme for men who managed to get a woman pregnant, no need to actually use that leave for the purpose intended, just go on a little holiday and reward yourself for how amazing your dick is.

I suspect you were on very dodgy ground there unless your policy was very detailed and specific.

It blows my mind that there are constant complaints about men not doing enough and not parenting their kids then, when a huge organisation introduces a policy to encourage that, there’s so much disapproval of it.

Not really, paternity leave isn’t holiday entitlement.

The policies are great, but no, there shouldn’t be room for it to be abused like this.