Paternal leave for undeserving man

[Singlemum19802023]

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

Er, you do know that maternity leave is for the mother too - a pregnant woman doesn’t just “ carry” a child even if she’s a surrogate. She grows that baby from a 2 cell organism to 7-8lb of living flesh and bones from her own body. There’s no magic feeding tube going straight to the baby from what she ingests. The babies nourishment and essential chemicals needed to create bones, brains, skin, heart , liver and everything comes out brought the mothers bloodstream from the leaching out of her chemicals, fat and protein . It is a parasitic relationship . And one that biologically takes a minimum of 6 months to recover - latest research shows abdominal muscle take 2 years to recover from where they split during pregnancy. Ligaments, tendons etc can also take months to regain their strength from pregnancy hormones that make them more stretchy. Women are still entitled to free dentistry for up to 12 months after birth, as it is proven through epidemiological studies that womens teeth and gums don’t recover sufficiently for 12 months.

and then the women still has to birth that baby even if she is a surrogate . And bring a surrogate doesn’t protect her from birth injuries or c- section op’s can take months to heal from

being a surrogate doesn’t protect you from PND either

don’t be so fucking ridiculous

If that was the case basically no women would be able to take maternity leave either since most babies are FF by 6 week, and men are perfectly able to look after a baby too. You also are entitled to the same amount of maternity leave if you had a baby via a surrogate and obviously recovering from birth doesn’t apply there.

Paternity leave is a reward a scheme because you now know of 2 men who abused it. Lol okay.

Obviously it isn’t holiday entitlement but unless the policy is very specific, I doubt an employer would get away with doing what yours did if it went to an employment tribunal. Do you think women who take a year’s maternity leave don’t go on holiday in that time?

This is fraud. Having worked for Natwest I know for a fact that they require evidence of the baby. Seems like this guy’s manager isn’t following process. You absolutely need to report this.

Or maybe he's one of the type of men who have multiple babies, close in age with different women, and he has given A birth cert. Just not OP's.

OP would be within her rights to say, "It has come to my awareness that your employe John Smith has taken paternity leave. Though he is the father of my child born on X date, per his own request, he has not met the child or been involved in any aspect of her care. I last saw him in September 2022. I do not know if this paternity leave relates to a different child or whether your policy allows for leave to be taken by fathers who have no contact with the child, but I wanted to be sure you have accurate information."

I find it unbelievable that a large company like NatWest would not ask for the MatB1 form. Very unlikely.

I agree.

People are falling over themselves to encourage OP to report him to his employer and it's clear that it's because they're apoplectic that a man - a bloody man! - might be getting something he may not be morally entitled to in their eyes. And remember, we don't know what their policy is so how on earth people are deciding it's "fraud", god only knows.

If it was a thread about someone claiming benefits, or was taking time off sick when they're not, there'd be reams upon reams of replies telling OP to keep her nose out and that she can't possibly know the facts, etc., etc.

But no, because it's a male (I won't say man as he doesn't appear to be much of one) sailing extremely close to the wind with his company's policy on leave - which, again, none of us here know the details of - he simply must be reported because it's somehow an appalling sleight on the whole of womankind if he gets to benefit.

And before anyone piles on with cries of "won't someone think of the poor mens!" and that I'm "an apologist" for whatever type of man would do this, I'm not in any way defending him.

He sounds like an absolute arse and is in no way worthy of being called a father if he thinks this is ok. It's fine by me if he's made to hang his head in shame live on the 10 o'clock news for his profligacy with his employer's cash, but if their policy is lacking nuance to prevent this sort of piss-taking then more fool them.

The blame! 😂😂

What blame @Blossomtoes

OP you must report him because he is a man and he is definitely breaking a policy that I have not read.

@Sissynova I don’t think anyone has insinuated that this is a reward in the same way a bonus would be but you’re being naive if you can’t see that such generous policies have attraction and retention of male staff as an objective

Also just realised my tag of @Blossomtoes in my last post didn’t work, did my explanation of why this pat leave policy is likely to be more expensive for the business than providing equivalent mat leave make sense?

And remember, we don't know what their policy is so how on earth people are deciding it's "fraud", god only knows.

In what batshit universe would any employer be absolutely happy to give 6 months of paternity leave on full pay to a man if they knew that he was not in contact with the mother of his child and had no intention of spending any time with the baby?

What on earth has that got to do with declaring it to be "fraud"?

It kind of does. Except possibly that senior employees are more likely to be older and past the baby years. I can see what you’re getting at but I don’t agree with it.

My choice of word was crass and unthinking @Singlemum19802023. I should have said responsibility.

Thankyou.x

Deliberate concealment if the truth in order to get the benefit. Isn’t that obvious?

You. Don't. Know. What. The. Employer's. Policy. States.

You don't know what has or hasn't been said, concealed, written, declared, ignored or agreed. No idea whatsoever.

Christ. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall.

We know the truth of the extent of the man’s (non) involvement with his child because OP has told us.

Perhaps you think that Nat West would happily send him off on 6 months leave at full pay just as a reward for having conceived a child? I have already said that I think this is vanishingly unlikely. So it follows that they have not been told the truth. There is no need to know anything more about the detail of their policy or what he said to them.

There is every need. If the policy allows for this leave following the birth of a baby and that’s all the detail it goes into he’s entitled to it.

Will you just lay off with this desperate need to have the last word @Blossomtoes? It’s tedious in the extreme.

For the third time, my take on the situation is based on the premise that the employer would not be happy if they knew the truth. I think that is a safe assumption, you clearly do not. I heard you the first time.

Will you just lay off with this desperate need to have the last word @Blossomtoes?

Nope.

For those saying a matB1 should be requested, what difference does it make? It doesn’t prove paternity does it?

I think this policy is a good thing, but as with most things in life it will be abused by a few. Even taking that into account, it will still most likely have a positive net impact.

Also to those saying men could just take unlimited paternity leave, I think the business would realise something was up if a man was supposedly fathering multiple babies a year. That’s quite the pretence to keep up at work, and will lead to a hell of a lot of judgement.

Plus technically women could do the exact same, claim they are in a same sex relationship and their partner is pregnant.

But what if the man actually WAS fathering several babies a year? Perfectly possible. Since some think it entirely plausible that employers are happy to grant leave for a child in whose life you do not plan to be involved, it follows that the employers can’t complain when he does this several times in a row, right? I mean, it’s not like women stop getting maternity leave after a maximum number of kids…