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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Paternal leave for undeserving man

258 replies

Singlemum19802023 · 08/07/2023 20:29

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 10:07

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 10:03

Okay Robin Hood, whatever you say. Thank goodness for the sensible poster upthread who pointed out that people in financial services have a duty to act with integrity.

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When my first argument fails to land, I’ll turn to another one. 😂

heinztomatosoup · 09/07/2023 11:03

Echo @OhTinyBear @ChocChipHandbag. I discussed this with my husband who works for large global bank. Banking employees are expected to maintain the highest standards of honesty and integrity, they are dealing with our money after all.....and this situation is the worst example of lack of moral integrity possible! The guy is literally defrauding his employer, for his salary and, as another poster stated, his colleagues are no doubt picking up the slack.

It may be technically within their rules, but no doubt there would have been an expectation of involvement with the baby which is probably written in the policy? Husband through this may be a sackable offence or a disciplinary at the very least.

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 11:18

Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 10:07

When my first argument fails to land, I’ll turn to another one. 😂

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Perhaps you’d like to add something meaningful to the discussion @Blossomtoes rather than lazyily resorting to personal attacks?

Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 11:35

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 11:18

Perhaps you’d like to add something meaningful to the discussion @Blossomtoes rather than lazyily resorting to personal attacks?

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I did yesterday. I don’t need to repeat myself.

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 11:54

Chocolatelabradorsarethebest · 09/07/2023 09:53

You’re confusing leave and pay.

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Am I?
I don't think I am.
Both are paid leave, aren't they?

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch · 09/07/2023 13:11

Duckskitbank · 08/07/2023 21:31

Reason #263 why shared parental leave/ extended paternity leave is a bad idea.
Newborn babies need their mums and new mums need to recover from pregnancy and childbirth. Men can get to the back of the queue.
Don’t @ me, I know this is an unpopular opinion and I don’t care. By the time more women realise the reality of changing maternity leave to “gender neutral parental leave” it will be too late.

I am going to @Duckskitbank because I agree with you. It is yet another example of men wanting what women have had to fight very hard for.

Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 13:19

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch · 09/07/2023 13:11

I am going to @Duckskitbank because I agree with you. It is yet another example of men wanting what women have had to fight very hard for.

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Surely it’s happening because women demand it? The reality is that this deprives women of nothing. It’s in addition to maternity leave. It’s not changing maternity leave to “gender neutral parental leave” at all. Women at NatWest get maternity leave and male employees get (very generous) paternity leave. Nobody loses.

WeWereInParis · 09/07/2023 13:32

TheBig4O · 09/07/2023 10:01

So could a woman identify as a male and then take 6 months fully paid paternity leave because her partner has just had a baby? Oh, the possibilities!

Where I work a lesbian whose partner gives birth gets 6 months full pay, as do men, and women who give birth. It's a new parent policy, rather than sex-specific. If both parents work there, they both get the 6 months full pay.

Pancake678 · 09/07/2023 13:50

OP. Could it be that he has another child and got the PL from second unknow baby?

Sissynova · 09/07/2023 14:08

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch · 09/07/2023 13:11

I am going to @Duckskitbank because I agree with you. It is yet another example of men wanting what women have had to fight very hard for.

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Men having access to better paternity leave does absolutely nothing to negatively impact woman and only positively helps individual women and society as a whole.

UndercoverCop · 09/07/2023 14:37

DH didn't have to provide evidence for paternity leave, but at the time we worked for the same employer and I was waddling about visibly pregnant, they'd also had my matb1 for my mat leave

3BSHKATS · 09/07/2023 14:53

WeWereInParis · 09/07/2023 13:32

Where I work a lesbian whose partner gives birth gets 6 months full pay, as do men, and women who give birth. It's a new parent policy, rather than sex-specific. If both parents work there, they both get the 6 months full pay.

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Im so doing this

Sissynova · 09/07/2023 15:04

3BSHKATS · 09/07/2023 14:53

Im so doing this

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What, pretend to have a child because you’re so bitter about same sex partners also qualifying for parental leave?
Odd.

YoBeaches · 09/07/2023 15:21

He's actually committed fraud though hasn't he. The purpose of that leave is to spend time with and provide care for the child. Their policy will describe this. He isn't doing that, so it's fraudulent for him to claim entitlement to that paternity leave.

And he works at a bank.

Yep, I'd be writing to the HR Dept.

Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 16:01

@Sissynova they are still around 40% state owned. They could benefit society in a more meaningful way by using the budget they’ve found to fund men on very good salaries having 6 months off work fully paid to buy back some more of the Government held shares

Original poster
Singlemum19802023 · 09/07/2023 23:35

All comments notes and appreciated no matter which way you went! Thank you! X

OP posts:
Sissynova · 10/07/2023 06:46

Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 16:01

@Sissynova they are still around 40% state owned. They could benefit society in a more meaningful way by using the budget they’ve found to fund men on very good salaries having 6 months off work fully paid to buy back some more of the Government held shares

Totally disagree. Encouraging more men to take time off after having a baby is a good thing. Hopefully there will come a point when the minimum is much more than 2 weeks. 2 weeks for men and 12 for women only starts families off on uneven footing from the start.
In this situation it was OP’s fling / ex bf/ whatever who is specifically the issue, not the policy of men being given time off.

AllyCart · 10/07/2023 06:54

YoBeaches · 09/07/2023 15:21

He's actually committed fraud though hasn't he. The purpose of that leave is to spend time with and provide care for the child. Their policy will describe this. He isn't doing that, so it's fraudulent for him to claim entitlement to that paternity leave.

And he works at a bank.

Yep, I'd be writing to the HR Dept.

You don't know what the policy says, do you?

Totaly · 10/07/2023 06:59

Men having access to better paternity leave does absolutely nothing to negatively impact woman and only positively helps individual women and society as a whole.

Love to know how that works for everyone?

I much preferred my maternity leave when DH was at work, not under my feet and expecting lunch made, after catching up on some sleep!

BanditsOnTheHorizon · 10/07/2023 07:08

When my dh took may leave (we split it 50/50) he had to fill in all sorts of forms, and you're right, the MAT for was one of the things he had to provide

meditrina · 10/07/2023 07:17

NatWest's policy is still fairly new.

If it's open to abuse, then that is better highlighted now, so that further checks can be put in place to reduce the chance of abuse of the system.

If such abuse becomes widespread, then the policy becomes more at risk than if "teething problems" need to be ironed out

ThatFraggle · 10/07/2023 07:23

Eyeroll at all the 'cool girls'

"So what that he's spitting in your face, it's nothing to do with you. Be cool like us and chill out!"

Astsjakksmso · 10/07/2023 07:25

Surely the issue is not the leave but the lack of proof needed?
He could claim to have gotten a woman pregnant every year. How would they know without an official document?

Blossomtoes · 10/07/2023 07:44

ThatFraggle · 10/07/2023 07:23

Eyeroll at all the 'cool girls'

"So what that he's spitting in your face, it's nothing to do with you. Be cool like us and chill out!"

How does that work, then? Whose face is being spat in by one man abusing a policy designed to improve parenting?

WeWereInParis · 10/07/2023 07:55

ThatFraggle · 10/07/2023 07:23

Eyeroll at all the 'cool girls'

"So what that he's spitting in your face, it's nothing to do with you. Be cool like us and chill out!"

But he isn't spitting in her face - what he's doing has no effect on her whatsoever.

I think he's a shit. But realistically it's hard to police a policy like this, and overall the policy is a good thing in my opinion. I'm also not sure what good reporting him will do - is NatWest going to want to implement a "minimum level of parenting" required to get the leave? How would that be measured? Get a little report card for the mother to sign each week to say he's done a decent amount? My work offers a similar amount of leave to partners, and the policy just says you're entitled to it after the birth, there's no additional notes about how you're required to spend the time. I'm surprised NatWest hasn't asked for proof of a baby, but since in this case the baby does exist that bit isn't the issue.