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Original poster

Paternal leave for undeserving man

258 replies

Singlemum19802023 · 08/07/2023 20:29

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 07:04

@Moro93 totally agree with your point around having an easy route to something women have had to fight for, that’s the bit I can’t get over.

Will be interesting to see what they report in terms of uptake of policy, improvement in their gender pay gap etc.

mokebox · 09/07/2023 07:10

Those saying report it, OK go for it but just because he isn't as involved as OP would like, doesn't make him any less eligible for the leave. If a mother put her child into nursery from day dot or papped baby off to her mothers, she'd still be eligible for maternity leave. Otherwise Natwest would just be getting into a big he said/she said about his level of involvement in the kids life.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's not relevant and complaining about it isn't going to help those who desperately need their partners to have be offered better paternity like Natwest is trailblazing here.

RedHelenB · 09/07/2023 07:12

Blinkingheckythump · 08/07/2023 20:51

I think it's like pouring salt in the wound for you, but, women who are surrogates get 9 months mat leave despite not having the baby to care for too, so in that case it's very similar I guess? So I'm not really sure how I feel about it

No it isnt. They have to physically and emotionally recover from a 9 month pregnancy and birth

WandaWonder · 09/07/2023 07:14

You chose to have a child with this person now he is not doing what you want? I can't see this ending well

Sceptre86 · 09/07/2023 07:20

You would think an employer like Natwest would ask to see the matb1 form. My dh works for a large banking group and he sent his manager a picture of mine each time. As to being annoyed about it, yes it is a pisstake that he has taken 6 months leave and presumably not used that time to see the baby. He isn't father material but you chose to go ahead with a pregnancy after a few months romance. You went ahead knowing you would be a single parent ad he lives so far away and doesn't appear keen to take any responsibility. Put in your claim for cms.

Nellodee · 09/07/2023 07:22

I would definitely want to let his employers know the situation. It should not affect other men’s rights, but if he was my employee, it would certainly affect his promotion prospects from that point onwards. What a twat.

funinthesun19 · 09/07/2023 07:27

There’s no way I’d just not say anything. I’d still tell his employer that he’s on paternity leave but has nothing to do with the baby. It might make them re think how they go about men taking paternity leave going forward.
As you say, I bet women have to waddle in with their MATB1 forms so that it’s all done properly. So men should absolutely be held to the same rules and procedures.

Also, it’s good for them to know which of their employees are dishonest pisstakers for future reference.

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 07:49

So, both male and female employees of NatWest, get the statutory amount of leave. Men/fathers, then get an extra 6 months on top.
Are their female staff/mothers offered an extra 6 months?

Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 07:50

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 07:49

So, both male and female employees of NatWest, get the statutory amount of leave. Men/fathers, then get an extra 6 months on top.
Are their female staff/mothers offered an extra 6 months?

Yes.

Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 07:51

@MockneyReject both are entitled to 6m full pay and a phased return, it’s a new parent policy available to all rather than separate mat and pat leaves I believe. Someone has posted a link earlier in the thread.

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 09/07/2023 08:13

Blinkingheckythump · 08/07/2023 20:51

I think it's like pouring salt in the wound for you, but, women who are surrogates get 9 months mat leave despite not having the baby to care for too, so in that case it's very similar I guess? So I'm not really sure how I feel about it

I'm not sure it is the same though, surrogates still need time for their bodies to recover from pregnancy and childbirth/c section surgery, and there is perhaps a mental toll as well. I do agree about rubbing salt in the wound though!

Wheredidtheselotapego · 09/07/2023 08:16

If he’s the sort of guy to do this, then he’s probably one of those guys who takes the piss at work generally. His co-workers probably know what he’s up to, but he’s so shit at his job they’re glad he’s out of the way because working with him is soul destroying and he won’t be in line for any promotions anyway.

Hopefully NatWest are aware and quickly rewriting their policies to make sure dads provide some documentation in future.

OhTinyBear · 09/07/2023 08:21

Hi OP, I’m a few pages in and don’t have enough time to read through the whole rest of the thread before sticking my oar in, so sorry if someone has mentioned it between then and the point my post lands - but if he’s in banking/financial services, his employer expects him to be honest and act with integrity. There will be something in his contract to that effect, but it would be an implied term in this field in any case. He wouldn’t have got this job in the first place if he’d told them he had done this whilst at a previous employer.

By taking the full paternity leave whilst having no intent of doing any parenting, it may well be considered by his employer that he’s defrauded them. I would report this to NatWest and let them investigate. Pass your info over to the right people and let them deal with it.

This IS a problem, despite what others seem to think, because people in specific occupations, financial services included, must act honestly and with integrity in the course of their employment, and for good reason.

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 08:26

My point is that NatWest are offering men 6 months over and above the standard amount of paternity leave, but women only the standard, statutory amount of maternity leave.

Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 08:31

@MockneyReject no women get 6 months full pay too

Sissynova · 09/07/2023 08:34

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 08:26

My point is that NatWest are offering men 6 months over and above the standard amount of paternity leave, but women only the standard, statutory amount of maternity leave.

That’s not the point at all and it’s not correct.

Festivecheer26 · 09/07/2023 08:34

ofc with a 31% gender pay gap an average mat leave will be cheaper for them than a pat leave under this new policy, but that’s probably a separate argument

spurs4ever · 09/07/2023 08:34

@Singlemum19802023 YANBU however for your own mental health I would forget it and move on. It's grossly unfair. My own ex took PL for 2 weeks after our son was born but never came to see him, let alone change a nappy. The best thing you can do at this stage is put your CMS claim in and expect nothing more from this man.

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 09:32

Ijustdontcare · 09/07/2023 00:25

I work for Nat West the policies are Maternity - 6 months full pay, 15 weeks statutory. Partner leave (Paternity) - 6 months full pay, 15 weeks statutory.
They don't affect each other and if both parents work at the bank they both get 6 months full pay.

Also, he doesn't need to show any forms from the mother. He just needs the SC3 form from the goverment. https://www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/how-to-claim

It may be morally wrong, but this guy has done nothing to contact HR about or broken any policies.

Wow did you create that username just for this post?

You really don’t care that your employer is being defrauded? Because regardless of the fact that they have not thought their policy through, there is no way they intended to be paying for absent fathers to have 6 months off on full pay. How would you feel about having to cover the work of someone doing this?

NoTouch · 09/07/2023 09:36

Asiatoyork · 09/07/2023 02:00

The unfair thing about it is new employees who are pregnant have to be working in the qualifying week to get maternity pay. Men are entitled to apply for it on day 1 of employment. So they could start one day, give 3 months notice then can piss of for 6 months full pay

That is unfair! Surely the companies offering these extended paid paternity leaves put a limit on how many a man can take?

OP - I’m amazed at the people saying you are bitter like it’s not a natural emotion. I would be bitter as all heck about this. On balance, though, probably wouldn’t report it. It’s not drama you need in your life. I hope he’s at least giving you some money.

Within our company they are only allowed the 6 months paid paternity twice. Not sure what happens if they have a third.

We are 2.5 years into into a long running project with a large global FT team and there have been 6 instances of team members taking 6 months paternity (one guy is off for the second time during the project) . No maternity leave in the team yet.

3 of the guys were part of a 4 man team and their leave is overlapping, it is causing lots of issues as they are technical roles we cannot easily fill. One guy had only been with us 6 months before going on leave and handed his notice in just before he came back. It is quite strange seeing projects struggling with resource issues because men are going off for their babies, but ultimately if not abused I guess it is a good thing for equality in the workplace.

Chocolatelabradorsarethebest · 09/07/2023 09:53

MockneyReject · 09/07/2023 08:26

My point is that NatWest are offering men 6 months over and above the standard amount of paternity leave, but women only the standard, statutory amount of maternity leave.

You’re confusing leave and pay.

TheBig4O · 09/07/2023 10:01

So could a woman identify as a male and then take 6 months fully paid paternity leave because her partner has just had a baby? Oh, the possibilities!

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 10:03

Blossomtoes · 09/07/2023 09:54

You really don’t care that your employer is being defrauded?

Why would they? Have you seen NatWest’s profits?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/28/natwest-first-quarter-profits-jump-after-interest-rate-rises

Okay Robin Hood, whatever you say. Thank goodness for the sensible poster upthread who pointed out that people in financial services have a duty to act with integrity.

ChocChipHandbag · 09/07/2023 10:04

TheBig4O · 09/07/2023 10:01

So could a woman identify as a male and then take 6 months fully paid paternity leave because her partner has just had a baby? Oh, the possibilities!

I imagine the policy already applies to single sex couples without any need to identify as the opposite sex.