Paternal leave for undeserving man

[Singlemum19802023]

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

If it makes you feel any better, him having taken the leave might make it more equal for a female colleague who has taken maternity leave when they both in the future go for promotion.

Exactly. So should still be reported.

Actually yes! That is one benefit!!!! Thanks!

This exact policy has been a massive bugbear of mine recently (don’t work for NatWest but am in financial services in an area with a big NW office so have a few peers/ friends employed there). Apparently Aviva, Fidelity and Aberdeen all have similar policies.

OP I’m with you. I do get that this type of policy is ultimately supposed to help women and must be much more inclusive in the case of same sex relationships. However, the vast majority of employers are so out of step with this approach (I’d be entitled to 6 weeks full pay then SMP, men at my firm get 2 weeks pat leave, my husband’s employer also only offers 2 weeks pat leave) it just feels like a slap in the face to women everywhere else.

I hadn’t appreciated the point re the Mat B1 forms so it’s all the more galling that it’s so easily open to abuse.

I used the NatWest example to try petition my employer to review our policies but got nowhere. It does really piss me off that there are men out there working for these institutions on already very good salary and bonus packages for what they do, getting 6 months off fully paid and able to phase their return, while so many women receive very little in the way of maternity pay/ allowances. Don’t get me wrong, 2 weeks isn’t enough for a pat leave so I’m pleased for them that they are supported in taking more time out, but 6 months fully paid is an outrage.

Yes my partner and I work for a bank in Canary Wharf, there are no bank HQs intown that I am aware of.

The issue surely is that some women have crap enhanced maternity packages rather than fathers having paid time off?

@Mapples oh yes definitely, but I can’t see that improving any time soon

But surely the answer isn't to hope companies remove these progressive policies? For a woman who has a decent father this could really benefit them as a family, so it does also affect women and the focus surely shouldn't be on the minority who might abuse it.

You’re comparing apples with oranges. In the same organisation a man won’t get better leave than a woman, it’s about aligning it, it is in our company and the others mentioned. Petition your company to improve mat leave, to be kissed off other women and men working for more progressive companies have better family leave for both women and men than you is very misplaced.

The issue is with the companies who have terrible policies, not companies who are trying to make a positive change. It has to start somewhere, I don't think 6 months fully paid is an outrage at all. It's an outrage that it isn't the norm for both parents.

At least they have their bodies to recover though they've done some 'work' (just like mums of stillborn babies have mat leave rights)

Just to add from a HR perspective... At my company (and most i'd imagine) we're not allowed to ask for the Mat B1 if the mother isn't an employee. It's a breach of GDPR to request or store data about an employee who doesn't work for us. The government website even states "You do not need to give proof of the pregnancy or birth"

That being said it's likely he will have had to complete a form saying that he is the baby's father and intends to have a caring role and be responsible for the baby's upbringing so he's obviously lied about that. You could report it to their HR team but I'm not sure what if anything they'd do about it.

I thought you were referring to two weeks!!

He has massively taken the piss. However, report him and

1. it may raise issues for the majority of dads who want to avail of it;
2. it will cause a major problem with your child’s father going forward, early days;
3. if he loses his job, how will he support your child?

Have you actually talked to him and agreed how you are going to co-parent? Does he see her?

I am sorry to say but this sort of issue was kind of inevitable when you conceived with someone you had been with for a few weeks. You don’t know him or what he’s capable of.

It's really annoying that he hasn't helped you despite the time off, but how will you reporting him and causing drama at his office benefit you or the child?

I guess you could ask him to pay you some of his paternity pay on top of child maintenance (he'll probably say no) in exchange for keeping quiet and tell him it's your babysitter fund as he's not doing the child care he's getting paid for

I do completely agree that the issue is with those employers who aren’t progressive. But the reality is that employers like mine aren’t going to go from 6 weeks full pay to 6 months full pay for women or increase their pat leave offering as a result of the likes of NatWest changing their policy. It’s just not affordable/ in line with their growth plans. So it’s much easier for them just to explain it away as an outlier in the market, not something they can benchmark etc. Had we seen, for example, a shift to 6 weeks fully paid pat leave across more of the market, I think that would have made a stronger case for change in less progressive employers.

It’s not shared parental leave. This doesn’t take anything away from the mother. It’s in addition to maternity leave, which is a good thing. My partner got extended paternity leave and it was a lifesaver, it really helped me recover and ensured he did his bit. I think you’ve misunderstood.

It is also a big confirmation for you that you made the right decision to go it alone and he is not too likely to meddle with how you raise your daughter. He has shown you quite clearly who he is and where his priorities lie. He could have taken the leave and decided to try to move in with you or near you and try to influence all your decisions. It sounds like you are doing great on your own.

This. How would you write a policy that states the father must be actively involved in the upbringing of the child during the parental leave? That’s so subjective it would never work. You are either a father and get the time off, or you aren’t. He is a father, he gets the time off.

That’s not ‘amazingly progressive’, its the law! Maternity leave can become shared parental leave to share the total weeks between partners. The only options the company have is if they pay more than statutory minimum pat or not. But the mother has to agree to cut maternity leave so thats not whats happening here

I would expect that to claim paternity leave you would need to at least be living with the baby. What a joke. My old workplace had parental leave for 3 months. Men could claim it but they had to prove that their partner wasn’t also taking leave. Like a letter from partner’s employer saying when they are returning to work. I guess if they were a single dad they would have expected some sort of parenting plan in place.

I am certain that it would be counted as fraud on his part. You can’t say you need leave to care for a child and then not actually care for the child. I don’t think the company requiring proof is unreasonable. That’s what expected for mothers. I had to give a medical certificate stating I was pregnant to go on mat leave. So shouldn’t be any different

Yes that doesn't seem fair

I'd be reporting him like a shot. NatWest and their ilk must be a cupboard full of mugs to allow this. Is he on the birth certificate?

With regard to them knowing you reported him then, no, no way. Anyone who knows him could and would know he hasn't done a paternal thing during his supposed paternity leave and report on this basis.

My understanding is he has nothing to do with either of you and has done no parenting at all during his six months of leave, is that correct? Has he contributed at all financially or practically? If the answers are yes and no then I'd hang him out to dry, or at least hope that would be what would happen. What relationship between him and your child would you be protecting? If the aforementioned is the case then there isn't one, anyway. I really feel for you, he could have visited and helped or even visited and bonded. If he's done neither then he's made his bed and should lie in it. I hope you've had a good ML yourself so far and congratulations!

This.

They need time to rest and recuperate from pregnancy and labour like the rest of us though...

What proof do you ask for?