Paternal leave for undeserving man

[Singlemum19802023]

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

Thing is, other than providing our MatB1 our maternity leave isn't policed either? Of course we have the physical recovery to get through - but I suspect there will be some women who 'abuse' their maternity leave (think leaving baby with family to go off and resume their pre baby life).

Given that I can't think how you could suitably police it, I can only see kicking up a fuss negatively affecting people who genuinely do 'deserve' it.

I agree with you in basically everything you're saying. And if there's actually a way to police it and ensure it only gets used by those who are actively involved in their baby's life then I'm all for it. But I just can't see how bringing this to the company's attention would have any positive result.

They have no idea who I am, or if I exist so how could it!

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

But realistically, how could you possibly police it. Based on threads here, some husbands would take it and do fuck all parenting during the time. I think it's better to allow all men to take it and just treat some men taking the piss as a price worth paying (I think they should need to show the MATB1 form, although that's up to NatWest if they want to pay someone without seeing it).

But how does it actually affect you? Your income isn't lesser because of it. It's up to them as a private company what they do as is the case with many things. Presumably you're claiming maintenence via CMS? In which case perhaps think twice about reporting and maybe getting him sacked.

It's only reading this that I realised my DH didn't need my MATB1 to get his paternity leave. We work for same company too.

What do you want to achieve by complaining to Natwest? It's a bit like folk complaining about benefit cheats, there will always be people who abuse the system but its in place for the majority who actually need it so getting all up in arms about wont do anything for protecting the future of that policy or encouraging other employers to follow suit in the future. Let the few who abuse it slip through net for greater good.

All you'll do is make Natwest question if more controls need to be in place which might make things more of a pain for people who aren't abusing the policy, or you'll also sour relationship with DC dad. What's the point?

Also, if he had needed & asked for your MATB1, would you have refused it?

It doesn’t affect me directly. However I worry that if this particular way of doing things is seen as the way to do it then it will be taken advantage of more and more by men, and I’m that vein affecting the rights of all
women, and also costing us all more money. Nat west get their money from us after all.

Reason #263 why shared parental leave/ extended paternity leave is a bad idea.
Newborn babies need their mums and new mums need to recover from pregnancy and childbirth. Men can get to the back of the queue.
Don’t @ me, I know this is an unpopular opinion and I don’t care. By the time more women realise the reality of changing maternity leave to “gender neutral parental leave” it will be too late.

This is just a very odd stance. So paternity leave should never improve because some men are dickheads?
What about women who take maternity leave but their baby has a nanny?

The majority of men, women, and families benefit from better paternity leave. The number of men who abuse it is going to be tiny.

Your ex being shit doesn’t mean no other men should have this or that NatWest should change their policy.

Okay. Thanks for your opinion. I’ll take your comments on board.

Well get your shit together and focus on campaigning for better maternity conditions instead of bitching about entitled men and the patriarchy. Him taking his entitled time off is not affecting whether a company in another country gives adequate time off for new mothers.

I think @Singlemum19802023 is onto something here.

I agree with the premise that just because men more leave doesn't mean women get less.

BUT actually there is an imbalance between maternity and paternity.

In order to claim Maternity, women must provide proof, such as MATB1 or a letter from thier doctor

To claim Paternity, men do not have to provide proof.
Some companies may ask men for a MATB1, but some won't.
But all companies will ask women for proof, and all women have to provide it.

Essentially what I'm saying is, men can just literally say "im caring for a baby" and that's all they have to do fur Paternity.
Whereas women, have to provide evidence for Maternity.

I hope I'm making sense 😁

I mean a lot of companies don't offer anything above the legal minimum for maternity leave, I honestly can't see them clamouring to provide parental leave. A better use of energy is probably to lobby the gov to raise min maternity leave pay for all women. It does sometimes work, after tireless campaigning for example mums who have premature babies can have extended mat leave, so good luck OP!

He is doing his bit for equality in the workplace. Men like him will make women seem a better bet for employers as men can potentially father multiple children throughout their working life

Thankyou! I think people think I’m just being bitter on here. I’m not! Just drawing attention to what feels unjust to women

I'm amazed it's been approved because there's only so much shared parental/maternity leave that can be taken, at least that was the case when I had mine

For DH to take his leave, I had to outline when I was curtailing mine.

I voted YABU (even though he sounds like an arse) because I can't see how this has been signed off for him to take that much on full pay without you having to give up some of your leave entitlement.

To be honest I find your choice of language almost as crass as the father of your baby's behaviour.

"Knocks up a girl"?
"Knocks up his girlfriend"?

Either way, as crass as his behaviour is it doesn't affect you.

Mate…neither can I!!!!

It’s paternity leave, not shared parental leave.
Shared parental leave is a zero sum game in total, enhanced maternity and paternity are independent of each other.

You almost have to admire the brass neck of him

I don’t see how companies could police this he’s become a dad so he’s in titled to it

I think this is more an you’ve had a baby with practically a stranger and it’s not working out well

Agree. OP is bitter over her absent ex and that’s fair enough, but she’s focusing on dragging down a whole system which is beneficial for the majority just because she’s in a shit situation.
At the end of the day her ex having paternity leave doesn’t impact her at all, it doesn’t change her finances, it doesn’t leave her worse off, it doesn’t affect her leave. It just winds her up that he’s enjoying himself and she’s stuck with a baby, but she’s focusing on totally the wrong thing.

Most companies doing this are not reducing mat leave.

It may seem so on the surface but offering men more leave isn’t actually to enhance the rights of men. Most companies are doing it to help improve gender balance at work (particularly at senior levels) and to move away from the stereotype that women have to pause their careers while men get to continue at same pace.

If a father can take more time off it enables the mother to go back to work earlier, if she wishes/chooses, which is beneficial to her career (and might be financially better if she is the breadwinner).

It’s all about providing more flexibility and choice.

I say this having just written and launched a policy like this at my work, and this was our objective.

But it’s not unjust to women. No woman is being affected by it, not even you because he was never going to step up and be any kind of father, was he?

Definitely blow the whistle. There is no way he is complying with the HR policy there! They would be very interested to know how dishonest he's being.

But it depends if you have the CMS sorted, of course it can take ages to get the wage garnishing set up and that's arguably more important as goes to the welfare of your DC.