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Original poster

Paternal leave for undeserving man

258 replies

Singlemum19802023 · 08/07/2023 20:29

So, I often read these and think. “that can’t be true, it’s too unreasonable” but that REALLY IS the case here, or so I believe. Let me know if im
wrong.

I’ll not messaging to bitch or moan (however if you guys say I am being unreasonable then I’ll shut up about it!), more to get advice on what I need to do to draw attention to it.

Also, I never understand all the acronyms on here so if I do anything wrong I apologise!

Here goes…. I gave birth to a baby girl in Feb. It was after a brief 3 month fling with a guy. Didn’t go anywhere. No dramas. Informed him we were pregnant at 12 weeks and agreed to try to parent together (however he lives in Brighton, I’m in Manchester). I knew it would be me doing the work. No issues with that, just wanted my daughter to know who her dad is.

So…he works for NatWest, who, in Jan 2023, have given all men 6 months full pay paternity. Don’t get me wrong. This is a good thing for families and I totally support it. However, the father of my child is not here, he is not helping us on a day to day basis, he’s out on the beach with his mates having a whale of a summer at the expense of NatWest. Believe it or not, he has never asked me for my MAT B1, or the birth certificate, so I’ve no idea how NatWest even know he has a child!

It just seems like a crazy thing for a company to afford rights to their male colleagues that, I’m pretty sure their female colleagues don’t get (I’m sure they have to waddle in to HR with their MAT B1 to get Mat pay!)

I don’t know who to speak to to try to get them to look at this. I’m happy for parents to have the right to parental leave and I think it’s important for men to have this to support their families. But to allow anyone who “knocks up a girl” and refuses to take responsibility to also take 6 months full pay, plus accrued holiday, and a phased return to work, is an absolute abuse and a slap in the face to all of us that cope as single parents on Statutory Maternity!!!

I just don’t know what to do about what I feel is a complete injustice and a p** take of an important change in policy that should benefit families.

OP posts:
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5
Sierra26 · 08/07/2023 21:48

rwalker · 08/07/2023 21:43

I don’t see how companies could police this he’s become a dad so he’s in titled to it

I think this is more an you’ve had a baby with practically a stranger and it’s not working out well

Near impossible to police, but a discretionary policy like this can come with any conditions the employer wants it to have - eg confirm baby lives with you and if not explain the setup. At minimum it should say something about playing an active role to help deter the majority of potential manipulators.

Chocolatelabradorsarethebest · 08/07/2023 21:50

Sierra26 · 08/07/2023 21:45

Most companies doing this are not reducing mat leave.

It may seem so on the surface but offering men more leave isn’t actually to enhance the rights of men. Most companies are doing it to help improve gender balance at work (particularly at senior levels) and to move away from the stereotype that women have to pause their careers while men get to continue at same pace.

If a father can take more time off it enables the mother to go back to work earlier, if she wishes/chooses, which is beneficial to her career (and might be financially better if she is the breadwinner).

It’s all about providing more flexibility and choice.

I say this having just written and launched a policy like this at my work, and this was our objective.

Show quote history

I was just about to write something very similar, but you wrote it much better than I could. I’ve also recently helped to put a policy in place at my work too. Its ultimate objective is to benefit women. At our workplace fathers do have to provide a copy of the MatB1 though

Emmamoo89 · 08/07/2023 21:50

Yanbu x

kitsuneghost · 08/07/2023 21:50

Granted they could say you must have been married for at least 5 years and currently live together to qualify but that would entirely be up to the company. Even at that who is policing whether the time taken is being spent down the beach/at the golf course or changing nappies.

dinoice · 08/07/2023 21:52

I have only read your posts OP and will go back, so apologies if repeating.

How much if at all does he see her?

How do you know the terms of his leave?

Had he told you?

Whilst I absolutely agree with your outrage, I'm also cynical at the basis of it.

Six months sick pay? Stressed at new baby and no, and or little contact?

Sabbatical?

Career break?

Holiday bonus?

If he specifically told you I am on six months paternity pay, haha. That's a bit different and I agree with you is shocking.

minou123 · 08/07/2023 21:57

Singlemum19802023 · 08/07/2023 21:40

Thankyou! I think people think I’m just being bitter on here. I’m not! Just drawing attention to what feels unjust to women

Show quote history

No, I don't think you are bitter at all.

I get what you are trying to say.

Its mad when you think about it.
Women have to provide evidence, proof, documents, to prove they are having a baby, to claim Maternity Leave
Whereas all men have to do is just say/tick a box "im caring for a baby", and they get Paternity leave.

This isnt something I had realised before.

tourdefrance · 08/07/2023 21:58

I would be tempted to inform NatWest HR department anonymously and without naming him.
So querying why paternity leave is available without the father having to supply any proof (eg matb1 certificate) as you are aware of an individual who has taken advantage of this policy while not living with the mother and suggest this policy is reviewed.

you are unlikely to get a reply but may make some people think.

Doggymummar · 08/07/2023 21:58

I live in Brighton, just wondering what he is going to do when he is asked to bring the baby in?

Dacadactyl · 08/07/2023 22:03

I wouldn't grass him up personally. I'd try to keep things on an even keel between you, give that he's your child's father.

Theunamedcat · 08/07/2023 22:04

Is he even on the birth certificate? Has he seen her at all? Ever?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 08/07/2023 22:06

It's so so odd that they haven't even asked for proof of parenting. I'll bet they don't just take womens word for it when they want mat leave

MsCactus · 08/07/2023 22:09

Are you sure this is happening? You have to give up your mat leave for him to take paternity leave usually - and the work need you to sign it over to him via a signed form.

Has he faked your signature? If so he's defrauding the company. All very strange. The parental leave stays with the child, and it's a year all in - so if he takes six months you can only take six too. But you'd need to sign over your leave to him for him to take it

Sissynova · 08/07/2023 22:10

Doggymummar · 08/07/2023 22:01

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23426513.brighton-natwest-one-80-branches-close-country/

You sure he's not been made redundant, pretty sure this is the last branch.

There are many jobs for banks that aren’t in branch. Banks have huge offices across the country.

nevynevster · 08/07/2023 22:12

I agree it seems very odd but honestly I don't think you need to worry because it's going to be awkward as hell for him when he goes back to work and everyone asks about the paternity leave and the baby and all that. He's going to have to make it up or fess up.
If the policy doesn't cater for absent parents (and may not have been something that was thought of) then he's entitled to this, however unfair.
You may want to ask him for some extra contributions towards the baby costs however, given he's not been commuting etc.!

Dolma · 08/07/2023 22:13

minou123 · 08/07/2023 21:36

I think @Singlemum19802023 is onto something here.

I agree with the premise that just because men more leave doesn't mean women get less.

BUT actually there is an imbalance between maternity and paternity.

In order to claim Maternity, women must provide proof, such as MATB1 or a letter from thier doctor

To claim Paternity, men do not have to provide proof.
Some companies may ask men for a MATB1, but some won't.
But all companies will ask women for proof, and all women have to provide it.

Essentially what I'm saying is, men can just literally say "im caring for a baby" and that's all they have to do fur Paternity.
Whereas women, have to provide evidence for Maternity.

I hope I'm making sense 😁

The MATB1 is needed for maternity pay, not leave. No proof is needed for maternity leave.

The proof for pay is needed because HMRC requires employers to keep it as evidence of pregnancy, as employers can reclaim SMP from HMRC. HMRC doesn't require any equivalent evidence to be kept for paternity leave (even though SPP is also reclaimed from HMRC), simply because the sums involved are a lot lower. There's a lot more potential for fraud from employers reclaiming SMP than SPP, as the most that could be fraudulently claimed from SPP is about £350.

The requirements for claiming paternity leave are actually more onerous than for maternity leave, as a father can be required to certify that they have responsibility for the child's upbringing and will be using the time to care for the child. No equivalent requirement for maternity leave.

StarDolphins · 08/07/2023 22:13

Mapples · 08/07/2023 20:59

Why though?

Show quote history

Because the Dad has fraudulently taken ‘paternity leave’ (i’e to help look after/bond/help with his child) and instead, he’s sat down on a beach probably thinking “what child”, offering no help whatsoever while enjoying his full pay.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 08/07/2023 22:15

You keep saying that your not bitter, but yeah you’re bitter. This really has no impact on you or fairness to your daughter.

Quiverer · 08/07/2023 22:15

Singlemum19802023 · 08/07/2023 21:13

if this kind of thing is rolled out to all
companies then I find it an affront to women. Any guy who knocks up his girlfriend and refuses to take responsibility gets the added bonus of 6 months off work? I have a daughter. I don’t want her to live in that world!

Show quote history

There is no way this will happen in all companies. The vast majority cannot afford it.

LolaSmiles · 08/07/2023 22:17

It’s paternity leave, not shared parental leave.
Shared parental leave is a zero sum game in total, enhanced maternity and paternity are independent of each other
Thank you for the clarification. Things have obviously stared changing.

Sierra26 thank you for your posts and explanation of how things are changing. This should be a step on the right direction for sex equality at work if done right and fairly.

Sissynova · 08/07/2023 22:20

LolaSmiles · 08/07/2023 22:17

It’s paternity leave, not shared parental leave.
Shared parental leave is a zero sum game in total, enhanced maternity and paternity are independent of each other
Thank you for the clarification. Things have obviously stared changing.

Sierra26 thank you for your posts and explanation of how things are changing. This should be a step on the right direction for sex equality at work if done right and fairly.

It’s not really things changing. Maternity leave and paternity leave both predate shared parental leave the the minimum for everything is statutory. If a company only offer minimum paternity it’s 2 weeks, but if the couple want the father to have more time they can use shared parental leave. It still exists but it’s a different type of leave.

WeWereInParis · 08/07/2023 22:21

Are you sure this is happening? You have to give up your mat leave for him to take paternity leave usually - and the work need you to sign it over to him via a signed form.

A company can introduce whatever paternity (or maternity) leave they want. They can give new parents 5 years off fully paid if they decide to.
Shared parental leave is split between the mother and the father.

pontipinemum · 08/07/2023 22:21

You're right he should have had to prove he was becoming a father. I'm in Ireland for my husband to get statutory paternity benefit for 2 weeks he needed my details. So the least Natwest should be looking for is the maternity form, what is to stop another fella saying he's having a baby and taking 6 months off!!

Has he spent any time with you and your daughter? Is he paying his part?

kitsuneghost · 08/07/2023 22:21

StarDolphins · 08/07/2023 22:13

Because the Dad has fraudulently taken ‘paternity leave’ (i’e to help look after/bond/help with his child) and instead, he’s sat down on a beach probably thinking “what child”, offering no help whatsoever while enjoying his full pay.

Show quote history

The dad could live with her and have been married to her for 10 years and still do the same.