Car crash at Wimbledon school.

[DataNotLore]

Can everyone stop driving these fucking stupid ego-tanks in urban areas now?

Who needs a fucking wank panzer in Wimbledon???

Ban them in urban areas.

@mollyminniemo that picture looks very similar to the ones I see in my area! Although maybe slightly smaller, literally looks identical, this type of one nearly reversed into me and my children the other day! Safe to say when you’re a pedestrian on a pavement seeing this coming towards us was scary, I had to run out the way with my children and my toddler in the pram!

issue is when there this size is they can’t even see who is behind them! Let alone hitting someone in front of them.

There is cameras in them so they will be able to see. And reversing sensors
Which is probably more use than my car with no camera and reversing sensors that go off when they want

Well if you want some intelligent debate bring it on, tell me how many older and smaller low cost cars have more safety by design features as standard?

Virtually all new SUVs and other mid to high range vehicles come with most of the of the following safety be design, that are not included in a lot of cheaper cars and older vehicles.

Automatic emergency braking,
Forward collision alerts,
Pedestrian/cyclist detection,
Lane departure alerts,
Lane following assist,
Lane tracing assist,
Road sign recognition,
Blind spot monitoring with rear cross-traffic alerts and collision avoidance,
Driver attention warnings,
Parking sensors front/side/rear,
Wide-angle camera system and a millimeter-wave radar.

Some might say your using your mental gymnastics to say none of these features now save lives or have been part of the reduction in pedestrian incidents. 🙄

This 100% , What is obvious most of the people bitching in this thread most likely have never been in modern cars with all the inbuilt safety features.

Claiming all SUV drivers are driving blind is highly in factual.

They worked out well at the school didn't it.

Someone said earlier about is there an epidemic of them killing people compared to other cars but I don't think there needs to be. They worsen outcomes for other people in the event of a collision. That's a very horrible decision to make for other people. It's your own safety at others expense. Any small car can have all of these safety features and will be safer for everyone else by design.

When 5 people die every day on the roads then you can do stuff that even makes a small percentage difference in survivability means you're bettering the chances of plenty of people every year.

People are selfish. The same arguments get rolled out by people who can't imagine having their own life impacted at all, just substitute gun, dog, SUV, whatever status symbol/weapon

Well if you'd read the links that a pp provided, you'd see that your post is as ludicrous as it was.

The stats are there but clearly you've found a way to add 2 and 2 to equal WTF?

Just in case you can't be bothered to go back a few pages @Pinklagoon

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities

It's frankly bizarre that you talk about intelligent debate but go on to compare older small cars with brand new SUV's. Highly intelligent.

Why not have a read and come back and tell me where you got your original statistics about fewer accidents and greater numbers of SUV's on the road. I'd love to read that paper when every other bit of research done has categorically stated that SUV's are worse than cars.

The best rural vehicles are small hatchbacks and estates with front wheel drive. It is about the skill and experience of the drivers. Running costs need to be low. seasonal work means many have to take them of the road during the Winter. I'm afraid the SUV are not much help in extreme weather. The Village Garage has an ancient Land Rover Defender with winch which gets them out of trouble. I think it's about want not need. Which is fine. Own your choices. How can you reduce their impact on others? Is Road Safety on your Neighbourhood plans? Get involved. Mark this tragedy with making changes. We can do this.

@MissHen
I agree, for your average rural person anyway, but fitting car seats in is a huge issue. I think this is why so many people are buying SUVs now.

@mollyminniemo It was this one. It's 17cm lower than old Defenders.

Sounds about right for the Mail.

Stop reading it

Ok thanks 5stargeneral but to me that almost looks worse! That’s a taller woman and the boy fairly tall and they are just swallowed up in comparison to its heft, the girl just lost completely next to it.

So who is the greater danger? The woman picking up her kids from school in a SUV or a chav in a Fiesta ST doing 60 in a 30mph zone?

I feel like most egregious speeding I see is young lads in hot hatches (i.e. small with a high power to weight ratio). The stats show this demographic to be a high risk and they don't generally drive SUVs.

So do we also ban Golf/Polo GTIs, Fiesta/Focus STs, Audi S1/S3, BMW 140i, etc?

The first one.

She's driving a big, clumsy vehicle near small children she can't see and nobody will stop her.

The second one will get nicked pretty quickly with all the cameras round here.

You only need to look at accident statistics to know that it's most likely the parent picking or dropping off the kids.

It's not how powerful the car is but the type of car that's critical and SUV's are much more likely to kill thaia Fiesta of any flavour.

From: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021

Driver or rider failed to look properly 7,768
Driver or rider careless, reckless or in a hurry 2,858
Driver or rider failed to judge other person`s path or speed 1,787
Stationary or parked vehicle(s) 1,243
Poor turn or manoeuvre 1,142
Exceeding speed limit 1,057
Aggressive driving 1,011
Loss of control 840
Travelling too fast for conditions 740
Dazzling sun 738

The old Defenders that were banned from production because they didn't meet modern crashworthiness standards, particularly in respect of pedestrian safety?

If you're in a truck then there's not a lot that's a threat to your personal safety. Think about a pedestrian however. If you get hit by a low-bonneted car then you'll end up on to of it. If you get hit by a high-bonneted car then you'll end up underneath.

The technology exists in modern cars to force them to dynamically adhere to limits. Not just capping top speed at 70, but the car knowing when you're in a 20 zone.

All I can find online are blogs saying 1993-1998 Defenders were banned in the USA because of new regs about airbags. And the USA has rules about importing vehicles that were not sold in the US. You have to wait 25 years. Old Landies are legal in the US under classic car rules.

But the number of deaths of car occupants is almost double the deaths of pedestrians according to gov.uk. This makes me think that it's unlikely to be parents dropping kids off. You need to be going at some speed to kill somebody in another car.

So?

It's still less people dead at no real inconvenience.

We can't stop people driving overall (yet) but we could limit the choice of available vehicles based on safety.

The outcome isn't only worse for pedestrians, the outcome is worse for people in vehicles that are hit by SUVs

I understand people wanting to be safe, I want to be safe, I would not however make a decision that improved my safety at the direct expense of other people. That is immoral

Sorry but you weren't specific with your post. Given the discussion has been about pedestrians I assumed you were referring to them and not passengers in cars.

Passenger deaths are obviously due to vehicle vs another vehicle or some other stationary object (trees, parked cars, walls etc). There's a body of research that also suggests that SUV's are worse again for the following reasons:

High CoG leading to instability and rolling during a collision.
Inflated confidence due to feeling safer than other vehicles.
Worse road holding than an equivalent car.
Higher mass and resulting impact.
Higher mass and bonnet line, resulting in worse outcomes for other vehicles.

I experience daily, the issues SUV drivers expose others too. Consistently, SUV drivers are unable to maintain lane discipline and cut corners on blind bends. I often find one crossing the apex on my side, because it's easier than slowing down and cornering properly. I've been clipped, scraped and avoided head on collisions on A/B roads due to this. I rarely see the same thing with other cars as they're smaller and have superior road holding.

Hot hatches are no doubt fast but they're relatively low in numbers. A/B roads are the most dangerous and responsible for the most deaths, precisely because of oncoming traffic and the speed limits.

The classic Defenders finished production in 2016, they no longer complied with the 2015 Euro NCAP regulations. Obviously you can still own an old one, "NCAP" stands for "New Car Assessment Programme".

www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/vulnerable-road-user-vru-protection/

US SUVs are genuinely huge. People often refer to Range Rovers etc. as "tanks" but that's a bit unfair on tanks when an M1 Abrams has better forward visibility than some of those American leviathans.

Hot hatches are no doubt fast but they're relatively low in numbers.

This is just straight up untrue. The Fiesta ST is incredibly popular hence it being the most stolen car in the UK. And Golf GTIs/Seat FR models are everywhere.

So?

It's still less people dead at no real inconvenience.

Well, the argument was that they're causing some kind of epidemic of deaths when in fact pedestrian deaths are actually way down the list.

The problem is more speeding than big cars. Speeding is listed in 'the fatal five' causes as documented by the fire and rescue service.