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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice please - coercive control?

794 replies

rosesarentred3 · 06/07/2023 14:54

I'll start by saying if anyone recognises me from other threads I've created under a different name, please do not put those links on this post as all the info added together would make me easily identifiable to friends and family.

After being in my marriage for 10 years, I can see now that I believe my partner is controlling. I see a therapist who feel strongly that this is happening.

There are too many examples to list but I'll list a few:

Starting random arguments about my family out of nowhere, it literally could be anything. Then DP says to me 'see, look, we're arguing because of them, look at what they're doing to us! We shouldn't have contact with them'. This is about various family members and friends. DP has fallen out with many members of my family so it's awkward to see them.

If I leave a wrapper on the side, DP will be annoyed at me, tell me off, go on and on at me about it. But then does the same herself. If I said something she'd go mad.
The other week I said one night that I was going for a shower abr her response was 'does this kitchen look clean to you? Can you honestly say this is clean? Clean the kitchen before you have a shower'.

Saying what clothes to wear and not wear. I put on some summer pants and DP says 'you really look big in them. Honestly, if you're conscious about your weight I wouldn't wear those, they make you look massive'. I'm a size 10. Not that that matters.

My work is extremely confidential. DP will ask me for confidential information about my work saying 'if you don't tell me then you don't trust me' and will badger me about it and eventually not speak to me for long periods of time because I haven't divulged information.

Tells me regularly I wouldn't survive without her. What would I do without her? How did I manage before? etc.

My confidence is so low. I rarely see my friends. I've lost loads of friends since is being together.
DP told me when we first got together that some of my friends who I saw all the time had been speaking about me behind my back saying awful things and made sure we broke ties with them so I don't see any of them anymore.

Will get really mad at my family and say it's just because she's trying to protect me. Even though there's nothing to protect me from.

We have a child. When I was pregnant she insisted that she take the shared parental leave because I'd had enough time to bond with the baby while I was pregnant so it was now her turn. So I returned to work after having the baby. I cried to dp and said I really wanted to be with the baby and couldn't bear the thought of leaving her. But this just turned into an arguments where DP would cry saying she wanted time off with the baby.
A part of me felt like it was the right thing to do because DP continuously told me I wouldn't manage on my own, that I'd probably forget to do what I needed to do with the baby etc. and I really started to worry that would be true and agreed for her to take the leave instead.

Anyway - what I wonder is, what do I do now? I feel like I can't be in this relationship. I don't feel loved. I haven't ever felt loved in this relationship. Do I just leave? In which case this means selling the house and sorting shared custody etc.

Do I try to spend some time building my confidence first? Making friends? Going out more? Meeting people?
I'm always at home. I work at home. Then when I'm not working, I'm always with DP to the point where I now feel extreme anxiety whenever I go somewhere without DP.

Today I was planning a day with DC. DP then started a big argument with me, slagging of my family again etc.
however, I came out.
Is it completely pathetic that I feel chuffed with myself for coming out? I wasn't as anxious as I usually am. Years ago, I wouldn't have batted an eye at coming out on my own.

It all feels such a mess.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ErrolTheDragon · 12/07/2023 10:39

I'd missed that you run your own business - if you don't have a separate phone for work, get one asap. You don't need to justify this to her.

CecilyP · 12/07/2023 10:40

Agree with previous poster. Tell her nothing.

Try and call Women's Aid sooner rather than later. You said in an earlier post that you'd feel a bit of fraud calling them and they deal with worse. But with every new post it seems that you might be one of the worst cases they have to deal with. It is good that you have got this out in the open on Mumsnet but the next step has to be to share with those who can help practically - solicitor and Women's aid.

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 12/07/2023 10:50

I am struggling with calling women's aid because she can see the calls I make as we have a joint phone contract.

Call them on Skype or Whatsapp or Viber - loads of the chat apps also let you make calls through them, and they won't show on your bill, although you do need a way to top them up.

But yes, if you run your own business, get a phone for your business - or a Skype line (this is what I use).

Does she look on your phone? If it's fairly modern you could get an e-sim rather than an actual sim-card, pay for it through your company, and use your existing phone as a dual sim - one real, one e-sim (this is what I do when I'm travelling)

billy1966 · 12/07/2023 10:58

I think you need to pack a bag and take the baby and leave.
Take all paperwork you can.

This woman is a horror.

Drive to Women's aid and ask for help.

You poor woman.

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 14:01

So I shouldn't say anything at all today about wanting to leave? I can't stand how she was with me this morning. The more and more I'm in this and thinking about all the things she's said and done in the past is making me hate myself for putting up with it.
I am so so mad with myself that I didn't have my maternity leave. I will regret it for the rest of my life. I cry about it often because I can't stand it. I know it will be turned around on me.
She'll likely tell me daughter when she's older 'your mum didn't even care, she just went straight back to work'.

I hate the thought of her coming back shortly and me acting as normal.
But I do know what you all mean about me getting things sorted first.
I feel like I'm being over dramatic and maybe the situation isn't as bad as I'm making out and I will look ridiculous if I end it and she's fine with it and doesn't make my life hell.
Although I can imagine all what she'll tell friends because she pretty much does it already.

OP posts:
scoobysnaxx · 12/07/2023 14:13

Please please do NOT leave today and do anything drastic!! It will absolutely turn into an absolute war between the both of you, battling out money, thehouse, custody etc.

She will GUN for you and her abuse, cruelty and manipulation will likely turn up to 100.

This will make you feel much worse, less confident and feel like you have less power. That would be her goal.

You need to get AHEAD OF THE GAME. Call the shots yourself.

Plan and account for everything. So she has no chance to manipulate you back or control anything else. She already controls so much!

Plan everything with a solicitor and support form women's aid. They will help you problem solve and also predict and plan for her response behaviours so you'll know what to do if she does or says X.

If you leave impulsively, you'll be much more vulnerable I think.

Have the upper hand for a change. Give yourself every bloody chance of getting out successfully so she's left in the dust with NO choice and NO say.

I know it's hard and you can't stand the sight of her at the moment, but you've lasted this long.

Keep the poker face. Play the long game. Fake it as best you can.

Your escape is on countdown and you'll be out. Make it happen!

scoobysnaxx · 12/07/2023 14:16

Task 1?

Get support, information and advice.

Okay from who?
Mum/friend?
Solicitor
Women's aid

How do I do this?
I need a phone/email - use my work one/ pay cash for a crap Nokia

When?
Thursday when she's at work (eg)

Almost imagine you're helping a best friend in this situation? What would you tell her to do? How would you break it down with her into small small tasks.

scoobysnaxx · 12/07/2023 14:27

"I feel like I'm being over dramatic and maybe the situation isn't as bad as I'm making out and I will look ridiculous if I end it and she's fine with it and doesn't make my life hell.
Although I can imagine all what she'll tell friends because she pretty much does it already*"
*
I encourage you to read back over all of your posts, as well as your many years of experiences with her, and ask yourself... am I being dramatic? If a friend told you all of this? Would you be encouraging her to leave and tell her she's probably being dramatic? Not on your life!!

You need to start seeing your doubt as the product of years of abusive and coercive behaviour. This is classic for victims to say! It's not that bad...well I did/said this too...she's not always like this...

This is the result of manipulation at its finest.

It is 100% indisputable abuse.

You've not exaggerated a thing here, no do we need to 'hear the other side' or get more info to make a judgement. Everything you've said it abusive behaviour and your doubt as to whether or not it is, is a classic consequence of abuse.

You really really are seeing the light now, don't lose sight of it, ever. It's real and it's the cold hard truth and you know it. Don't waste a second longer questioning it.

Bitterballen · 12/07/2023 16:22

Great advice above.

So I shouldn't say anything at all today about wanting to leave?
Help me understand, what is the outcome of this conversation that you would be hoping for?

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 17:34

@Bitterballen
I really don't know. I suppose just so she knows I'm serious and I'm not putting up with this anymore?
But I know she can make life really hard.
She does weird things like doesn't let me sleep. If she's mad with me she will do random things to wake me up.
The atmosphere will be awful.
She will be super happy and playful with the baby in front of me but completely ignore my existence.
These are the things she does when we argue and she'll probably ramp it up even further.

She told me from the beginning that her ex was an abusive psychopath. This should have rang alarm bells. She says her ex was a narcissist and made her life a living hell. No doubt she'll spread all sorts about me too.

OP posts:
rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 17:36

@scoobysnaxx

I will call women's aid. It's just finding when. I will also call a solicitor.
I don't know who to speak to in terms of a friend. I don't know who I can fully trust to not say things like 'oh well relationships are hard....' etc because things like that make me doubt myself.

OP posts:
Bitterballen · 12/07/2023 17:46

I really don't know. I suppose just so she knows I'm serious and I'm not putting up with this anymore?
And then, what do you hope would happen as a consequence?

ErrolTheDragon · 12/07/2023 17:49

Don't forewarn her!
Do write down her unreasonable behaviour. Deliberately depriving you of sleep is torture (literally!)

Sure, relationships can be hard. Some may be worth it, others aren't. If this one isn't working for you - even if this woman actually was a saint which she very clearly isn't - then it's not working.

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 17:55

@Bitterballen
I don't know. Just so she knows I'm not weak. I was hoping she'd say 'right that's fine then' and then we'd talk about separating and selling the house, divorce etc. probably unrealistic.

OP posts:
Clarinet1 · 12/07/2023 18:26

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 17:55

@Bitterballen
I don't know. Just so she knows I'm not weak. I was hoping she'd say 'right that's fine then' and then we'd talk about separating and selling the house, divorce etc. probably unrealistic.

I’m afraid, OP, that you would probably get the sort of pattern of behaviour we hear so
much of from people ending marriages on MN - she would become more dangerous, which is exactly what you don’t want.
One thought re time to talk to people, make plans etc. Do you ever need to travel for work and you could dress it up as that? It would solve the car tracker problem - or is there a risk she might follow you?

Bitterballen · 12/07/2023 18:55

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 17:55

@Bitterballen
I don't know. Just so she knows I'm not weak. I was hoping she'd say 'right that's fine then' and then we'd talk about separating and selling the house, divorce etc. probably unrealistic.

I think you are still hoping for her permission to end things.

The reason for this is because she has controlled you for so long, it's hard to imagine doing something so big without her permission.

But the tiny rebellion happening in your mind, where you are imagining leaving, and she doesn't know, is where you need to focus and develop.

Are you discussing this with your therapist?

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 19:41

@Bitterballen
I think you're right. I'm looking for her permission. I want her to agree it's the right thing and then work together to make it as amicable as possible for our DC, which is unlikely when I really think about it.

I have spoken to my therapist, however I've had this therapist for many years and looking back I've told her of many red flags and she hasn't really said about it being controlling or wrong until recently. She also knew about me not having maternity leave and didn't challenge me on this or say I need more time or anything like that.
I know it isn't her responsibility as such as I make my own choices (to some extent) but I would have thought she would have questioned this when I look back.

She has apologised to me and said she is sorry that she didn't challenge me further when I said I wasn't having any maternity leave.

OP posts:
rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 19:44

@Clarinet1
I don't travel for work. I don't really go anywhere without her. We are together most of the time. I do see friends maybe once every 6 weeks for a couple of hours. And she has a problem every time I do this. Saying I can't take care of DC when I'm out, that I might not be safe, that she's worried about me and I can't handle it. Then tells me how shit my friends are so why do I want to see them. Then she might offer to drop me off and pick me up.
There are times she'll say she will wait in a cafe across the road while I see my friend etc.

OP posts:
rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 20:06

I've just looked online at the women's aid number and I'm absolutely filled with dread. The thought has just occurred to me, what if they contact social services? Or they think DC is in danger? She isn't in danger. But it feels very risky.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 12/07/2023 20:06

Your therapist sounds completely incompetent and every update on this vile woman gets worse.

This is one of the worst cases of abuse I have ever read about, ever.

Denied mat leave, forced to return to eork, expressing milk, and still doing night feeds, paying for it all?

Truly bibaric.

Absolutely coercive control.

I sincerely think this is a police matter.

Your therapist is a waste of space.

You poor woman.

MisschiefMaker · 12/07/2023 20:52

I agree with @billy1966

I have nothing useful to add but am absolutely horrified by what I've read here.

MisschiefMaker · 12/07/2023 21:43

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 20:06

I've just looked online at the women's aid number and I'm absolutely filled with dread. The thought has just occurred to me, what if they contact social services? Or they think DC is in danger? She isn't in danger. But it feels very risky.

Well they won't take your child away off the back of this .

However if they did contact SS (bearing in mind I have no idea what their criteria is, so I'm not saying they will) then would that really be so terrible? They would be advocating on your behalf which might come in handy for the custody battle. You have done nothing wrong here, you have to remember that. If people knew the truth they would all support you.

Bitterballen · 12/07/2023 22:12

I think it's hard to judge the therapist without being in the room.

The therapist has recently confirmed to OP her thoughts on her wife's behaviour. No doubt she's had these thoughts for some time. But if OP previously hasn't been sufficiently open to questioning this, it would have been risky and probably unhelpful for the therapist to call out openly the wife's behaviour as abuse, if OP wouldn't have been willing to hear it. It would just have endangered the relationship between OP and her therapist.

Calling OP's therapist incompetent on the basis of OP's posts I don't think is helpful. It just adds more doubts to OP's thoughts on "who can I trust?"

OP I really think you should have this conversation with your therapist, ask her why she didn't challenge you on the mat leave and explain how you now feel.

On another note - given the level of control exerted by the wife - I'm astonished she "allows" you to see a therapist. Why is this? Does she know?

Bitterballen · 12/07/2023 22:14

rosesarentred3 · 12/07/2023 20:06

I've just looked online at the women's aid number and I'm absolutely filled with dread. The thought has just occurred to me, what if they contact social services? Or they think DC is in danger? She isn't in danger. But it feels very risky.

Can you identify the sources of the dread?

What is they do contact social services? Can you specify what it is you're scared of?

You can of course remain anonymous as you start to talk to them.

scoobysnaxx · 12/07/2023 22:54

Contacting social services is exactly the kind of tactic an abuser might do. Which is exactly why YOU need to maintain control and have the upper hand. If you'd have laid it all on the table today, she would be plotting and scheming and manipulating. Telling lies about you to people, planting seeds. You can cope/ you did this the other day/you forgot this the other day for your kids.. they try to build a picture of "evidence" against you. Keep the upper hand.

There are many many teams within social services aside from child protection. There are many teams designed to support children and families to get through difficult times and navigate complex circumstances.

You have more than enough evidence of coercive control so I wouldn't worry about it honestly.

I appreciate it might not be on your radar right now but definitely consider reporting this coercive abuse to the police maybe in the future as it is a criminal offence.