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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To deduct the cost of replacement period pants from DD’s pocket money?

332 replies

Handsoffmypants · 05/07/2023 20:12

Am I being a horrible mother?

My daughter is nearly 13, she has diagnosed ASD and being referred for ADHD, for full disclosure. However despite social communication difficulties, she is fairly ‘normal’ for her age in the sense that she can get a train into the city to go and meet her friends, go around the shops etc, in fact in that sense she’s more independent than my much older daughter.

She has an allowance of £50 per month which she buys all her clothes and make up from (except expensive things like trainers and coats etc).

Her room is a fucking pigsty and there’s always clothes all over the floor, including the clean piles of laundry which I put on her bed for her to put away. She never bothers, they get turfed onto the floor, then every once in a while she puts everything, clean or dirty, back into the laundry basket. Obviously I get pissed off with her about this. Last night was one of those times, laundry basket went from pretty much empty to overflowing with her clean/dirty clothes.

I’ve put on a wash of some of the stuff out of her room, and amongst it was 2 pairs of my period pants, which as anyone who buys them
knows, aren’t cheap.

Now this isn’t the first time she’s nicked my period pants, she has plenty of pairs of her own but because her room is such a jumble of clothes, it’s easier to take mine from my organised drawers than hunt through her clothes for hers. I have told her very clearly in the past that I am not in the slightest bit up for sharing period pants with her, it’s fucking rank and she needs to find her own ones and not take mine. Apart from anything else, I have a separate bin for period pants and put them on their own wash without fabric conditioner, as you’re supposed to, so as not to wreck them - but of course she just chucks hers (mine!) in the main basket and I don’t notice until I’m hanging washing out to dry.

There is a recurring theme btw of her not respecting mine or her sister’s possessions at all, taking what she fancies and then lying about it.

So tonight, after the discovery of two pairs of my period pants being used by her, after fuck knows how many times of telling her not to do that, I’ve reiterated again that she’s an absolute minger for thinking I want to share period pants with her, she can keep those pairs and I will replace mine out of her pocket money. AIBU?

OP posts:
LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 06/07/2023 01:09

badluckorbadvibes · 05/07/2023 20:34

I think it's awful to even consider it.

She is a disabled child who needs support, it sounds like your expectations of her don't match her ability.

Don't punish her for this, it really really is not a fault

How could you possibly know that these things are true @badluckorbadvibes?

It seems much more likely that the loving parent will know the needs/abilities of her own daughter better than someone who is just guessing.

Children with SEN deserve a useful education - from home as well as from school- and it sounds as if this one is getting exactly what she needs.

user1492757084 · 06/07/2023 01:57

You are fair enough. She needs to pay for new pants for you.

Her room is such a mess that she is over whelmed to correct it.

Have you tried taking more of a lead in her tidying her room?
She might benefit from having a simplified system that she can maintain.
For example:

  • she owns fewer items of clothing
  • clearly mark with signs where each type of clothing goes
  • have a wash basket near the shower so clothes go off and in the wash basket not to her room
  • her clean clothes are put into piles of like clothing and you watch her place each pile into the correct cupboard/drawer upon delivery to her room (as a mandatory condition)
  • you walking in every night before lights out and complimenting the clothes she has chosen for the next day
  • she vaccumes every Saturday morning and changes her sheets.
mrsplum2015 · 06/07/2023 02:03

I empathise with you but this is normal to some degree with teenage girls. Mine got her period and was closer to my room so just went in and helped herself to my clean knickers and pj shorts. They don't find that unusual as that's how they behave with their friends so don't take it as disrespect.

Mine is also neuro diverse and her room is a tip but there are basic rules around no food or crockery being left in room and dirty laundry goes in a basket in the bathroom.

I also think you're not helping yourself by taking it personally and losing your rag. Shes just going to switch off if you hell at her and say she's minging.

I wash period pants at 60 degrees and it gets them totally clean so I'd just do that.

And you need a back up plan for her. Does she have access to pads or tampons if she runs out... otherwise what do you expect her to do!

justtype · 06/07/2023 02:04

user1492757084 · 06/07/2023 01:57

You are fair enough. She needs to pay for new pants for you.

Her room is such a mess that she is over whelmed to correct it.

Have you tried taking more of a lead in her tidying her room?
She might benefit from having a simplified system that she can maintain.
For example:

  • she owns fewer items of clothing
  • clearly mark with signs where each type of clothing goes
  • have a wash basket near the shower so clothes go off and in the wash basket not to her room
  • her clean clothes are put into piles of like clothing and you watch her place each pile into the correct cupboard/drawer upon delivery to her room (as a mandatory condition)
  • you walking in every night before lights out and complimenting the clothes she has chosen for the next day
  • she vaccumes every Saturday morning and changes her sheets.

This! I just came on to say that perhaps she has too many things and it is too overwhelming.

We are also a ND household and I keep clothes to a minimum as a) we don't have our own washing machine, only access to a communal one b) it just ends up in chaos, similar to how you describe. As we are a large family (4DC, all close in age), you can imagine the volume of washing!

So we have 10 outfits each.
Letting go of items is difficult, but we discuss it before we bring new items into the house.

And as PP have said, no pocket money until she has tidied her room weekly.

That said, I do find the way you are talking about your DC really sad. Words are powerful, and just as she doesn't have an excuse for not following basic hygiene rules, you don't have an excuse for using such foul language to describe your children. I really hope it is simply you letting off steam, and it isn't reflective of real life.

mrsplum2015 · 06/07/2023 02:05

Also my daughter does do a mass clean up maybe twice a year and throws out a lot. It was six bin bags of clothes this time plus two bin bags of rubbish! She's a bit older now but has always known she has to manage her own life and room so that's the way she chooses to do it

Blondeshavemorefun · 06/07/2023 02:27

No to replacing them as she knows not to use them

I would either help her tidy her room or do it myself to get it done and start again if that make sense

Agree before hand that you won't yell at anything you find that isn't hers

Then yes pocket money for a tidy room is good

Maybe stop her going out to meet friends if room isn't tidy

Katypyee · 06/07/2023 05:11

My eldest has ASD and ADHD. What seems a simply task to us (put away your clothes) is not a easy for a ND person.

My DC room is similar. I find it very frustrating. They explain it as overwhelming when it gets like that so they physically are unable to do it.

I help them put their things away. I am also going to be getting rid of their drawers and getting some open storage so everything can be seen and easily put away. It will be messy and I wouldn't want it in my bedroom but it will work for them.

You need to provide more support to help them organise and put their thing away. I know it is frustrating. I honestly do understand.

I agree that the period underwear is gross to share. My eldest takes my socks all the time from my drawer because they can never find theirs. I find it frustrating, although can appreciate that it isn't gross compared to what you are experiencing.

Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 · 06/07/2023 05:57

Seddon · 06/07/2023 00:07

As the (sometimes extremely frustrated) mother of a young ADHD adult I'm grateful you shared that and gave some insight into how he probably feels (because he would never say it himself).

Can I ask what, if anything, has helped? Did you eventually find some strategies for tidying and organising once you were living independently?

Honest answer is no, I really badly struggle now , I have 2 children which has made it worse ! As now I have to organise them and one of my daughters is autistic non verbal with significant learning disability.so that is hard on it own. I have got strategies I use, I find something called "rock the housework" by gemma bray she is someone who does guided clean ( she uses patreon and u pay £3.60 a month) where she will speak to u and guide u through what to clean how long for etc that helps with getting distraction and organised. It's a form of body doubling. Or before children i had a cleaner and knew i had to tidy before she came! And i have an understanding husband who instead of calls me lazy he supports me by acknowledging if I'm having bad adhd brain day and will put load of washing on or something. I'm not diagnosed yet still waiting been few years on NHS and I'm hoping medication will help as it's helped a few of my friends.

jeaux90 · 06/07/2023 06:09

MyDD14 has ADHD and ASD uses period pants. It is absolutely rank of her to use yours but then my DD doesn't always have the best insights into hygiene and it's one of my nag points.

We have a points system for money though so if she is motivated by it then do that. 2 quid for keeping the room tidy, 2 quid for sorting the washing etc etc so it makes up the weekly allowance.

We have a go Henry card where you tick everything off each week.

One thing to note which I found useful is remembering that SEN kids like my DD14 have an emotional maturity delay...I try and keep in mind that really she is 10 in some respects.

pandarific · 06/07/2023 07:40

@Handsoffmypants please don’t listen to those asshats having a pop. I’ve read all your posts and you sound a brilliant mum and I would have LOVED one like you as a ND teen with adhd.

I give all the love and praise in the world to both of them on a daily basis, however, if something is unacceptable to me (and my bar is really low compared to most parents), I will first explain nicely why and ask them nicely not to do that. And will continue to ask nicely for the next god knows how many times, but eventually I will lose my shit and there will be consequences. Pretty sure parenting a SEN child doesn’t mean that you allow them to grow up doing exactly as they please. That’s not going to help them in the long run.

👏👏👏 this is normal parenting! Boundaries.

JMSA · 06/07/2023 07:45

I wouldn't. Fair enough if you were buying her clothes separately, but £50 per month isn't enough for a social life, buying her own clothes, etc.

OnlyTheMoonWasWatching · 06/07/2023 07:47

Do you understand that she has problems with executive function, OP? Or why she gets upset when you move her things?

SoWhatEh · 06/07/2023 07:50

Please find some patience and teach her how to stay on top of her room. ASD/adhd brains simply can't 'tidy up'. The overwhelm freezes the brain. It has to be broken down into much smaller, very specific and easily manageable instructions.

I would go up to her room with her every single night for 10 mins and gently show her how to set a timer for 2 minutes - just 2, and in that time, pick up all school clothes from the floor. Another two mins to check are they dirty or smelly - make 2 piles. Another 2 mins put dirty clothes in hamper and clean clothes on hangers (help her with hanging clean stuff) Another 2 mins, pick up socks and pants and put them in the hamper.

Etc. Break it down into tiny specific tasks; just looking for school clothes, then weekend clothes, then small things like underwear and socks.

When it's done, give her a big hug and take the laundry hamper downstairs and stick a wash load on for her.

Do that every night and soon it will take less than 5 mins and she'll learn how to do it. I taught ASD ADHD son to tidy like that and now he's way tidier than his neurotypical brother. Might teach him the same technique.

OnlyTheMoonWasWatching · 06/07/2023 07:52

catscalledbeanz · 05/07/2023 23:29

Urgh I hate the infantilising and condescension that any thread involving sen draws. Op is the mother of this sen child and knows what is sen related and what is just teenagers teening. This is a standard teen being a teen. She's being Rude, entitled and selfish. As all teens can be. Not sen related, as the op has reiterated again and again! (What's more I worry how much coddling some pps would allow for in cases of sen- op has said her daughter is capable, confident and managing, she is what used to be known as "high functioning " . That's not to lessen her challenges, but these children with challenges will eventually be adults with challenges and have to live in the real world! We as parents need to support them, get them support and, being realistic, help them to learn coping strategies for when their differences cause them issues- because the world will not always or even often, give a shit about their triggers or sensory issues if they don't conform to a very narrow definition of "disabled")

Op I have a asd adhd daughter who is very similar to yours. I think it's entirely fair that you take her pocket money. She must learn consequences for her actions. If she doesn't face any consequences the reality is this will keep happening, as you've said yourself, you had the chats, you've offered help, you threatened and been angry. It's time for her see that her actions have consequences imo.

She is an autistic teen.

Being autistic and being “a normal teen” can’t be separated. She is an autistic teenager and will be an autistic adult.

The suicide statistics (as well as eating disorders) for autistic women are horrendous . But they are living in “the real world”, so that’s what important I suppose !

Self esteem is really important. Being shamed because of executive function issues is a horrible experience.

ASimpleLampoon · 06/07/2023 08:22

I would highly recommend Dr Ross Greene's methods for dealing with difficulties \lagging skills in respect of her problems with keeping her room tidy.

Its an executive functioning issue, very much part of her neurodivergence.

Seek help from ND people who have this problem and manage it. Mums net is not the place to find the help you need if you want to actually solve this problem rather than rant about it and have people who have no clue of these difficulties validate you.@Handsoffmypants

Jakadaal · 06/07/2023 08:38

Chiefwiggs it's not the fact that they are reusable it's the fact that the OPs daughter is 13 and at that age I supported my own ASD daughter in buying sanitary protection.

I have lived with the stealing, the bomb site rooms and was just trying to put a different perspective. Therefore please stop with the name calling and insults. We all parent differently and as I said it was my perspective and opinion.

HeartbreakHigh · 06/07/2023 08:46

If you really want a solution OP, instead of just slagging your daughter off, I have a suggestion for you:

Once her room is tidy, so you have a clear and calm starting point, you set up a box with her. The box will contain 7 pairs of clean period pants and a mesh wash bag.

What your daughter will do is take the pants and put the dirty ones in mesh bag. You can pick them up throughout week or in one go, wash and put back in correct place.

Your DD will have clean pants. You might need to remind about this system for some time, and get her to put the used ones in there, without shaming her.

Re: public transport and being more independent in “some ways”. That is is great. It is also irrelevant to her bedroom.

I have a first class degree and am highly organised and competent in some areas of life. I also struggle to pack a suitcase or to meal plan, lose my keys on a regular basis and have a history of putting the wrong fuel in my car.

My 10 year is autistic and has ADHD. I have ADHD.

My DD needs a tidy calm room to help her in life as much as possible, to retreat from the world and to be able to find things.

However, left to her own devices she would end up in a “pig sty” and overwhelmed.

We have worked together over a couple of years with systems and support from me, and there are now periods where she will keep on top of her room really well. They are periods of her life where she is well regulated and coping in other areas.

When she is overwhelmed in general, this is reflected in the state of her room and her executive functioning skills are impaired in general.

At the moment, she is nearing “pig sty” mode.

Today, I will go into her room and remove obvious rubbish and dirty clothing - most of the dirty clothes will be in wash bin as we have worked on this over time, but there are bound to be a few clean things.

I will take them out - this is ongoing, as sometimes she takes the “I have worn it so it is dirty” approach, even to clothing such a jeans which aren’t dirty and could be worn again. Alternately, when she is attached to a particular item or clothing she might insist that it is not dirty, when it is.

We have agreed that I can take dirty clothes and rubbish when she is not there, this took time and trust though.

For me to tidy it all when she isn’t in is something that causes stress, even with good intentions, as she then can’t find her things or cope with the unexpected change. Things that look like rubbish to me might actually be important to her.

I will fold clean clothes but I will not put them away, she needs to do that herself so that she can find them. I will support with that it necessary. They go in a box for now, beside drawers.

When DD gets home today, I will suggest to her that we could spend 10 minutes tidying her room, later on.

If she is very resistant to this, “No, I’ve had a hard day” for example, fair enough. I will tell her “I need it to be done by Sunday night, give me a shout when you are ready”.

This will happen, maybe with the odd reminder of “let me know when you are ready”. She might need a lot of support and encouragement, she might need very little. This has taken a lot of time and practice.

She knows how that she feels calmer in a tidy room (this took a while for her to recognise too, she used to feel safer in a messy “nest”).

The drawers are all labelled (we did this together with a label maker, she has one and she loves making labels now). There are separations in some drawers - a part for pants, one for socks, one for swimwear. Nothing is assumed. She picked categories.

This was a work in progress for a while, we kept reviewing it together to see what helped, including changing furniture or choosing new storage solutions together.

Other boxes and drawers are labelled. “Art supplies” is too vague. “Coloured pencils/scissors/glue” is more helpful.

If she is struggling then we set a 10 minute timer (I promise to leave after 10 minutes and stick to that) and do it in parts. She might watch and I talk her through it but she doesn’t contribute much.

At the end, with a tidy base, she can easily hoover and wipe surfaces and always does that part.

As part of morning ticklist she makes her bed.

I still help with the evening “what do we need for tomorrow?” checklist, in means she knows where her clothes and supplies are in the morning, better for us all.

About 30 % of the time, these days, she will suddenly decide to tidy by herself and call out to me for fresh bedcovers and a bin bag, and our dirty clothes in the hall and ask me to take them. She will do a brilliant job and her room looks beautiful. This has taken time though and she isn’t always capable of this.

My daughter is what used to be described as “high functioning” (which is a bloody unhelpful label sometimes; she might be academically capable and masking whilst in the gutter with her mental health).

I help her because I love and respect her. I know what it feels like to struggle with the things others appear to find easy and to feel like a lazy failure (and that can definitely be covered with bravado or “rudeness” which is actually anxiety).

One day, in the “real world” my DD will use ten minute timers for herself. She might label things. She will have a system for period pants! But she will still “fail” in some areas and excel in others. I hope though that she will always be kind to herself and to any neurodivergent children that she has (and is statistically more likely to have).

OnlyTheMoonWasWatching · 06/07/2023 08:54

(And I fully expect to support her with these or similar things when she is 13, she might well need more support due to the demands of secondary and extra social demands of being a teen as well as coping with hormone changes)

dontgobaconmyheart · 06/07/2023 09:54

I think it's right (and necessary) to continue to be firm about taking other people's possessions, treating them with respect etc, replacing what she took -of course.I can't see what the need is at all for the shaming language around the nature of it though. Not necessary to get the point across and it won't help because by doubling down on the disgust or words like "minger" it will ultimately just make her more likely to sneak around and do it out of shame or feel she can't ask because of that sense of shame - it won't help anyone. I would focus on the theft, the respect and those boundaries. You're obviously not a horrible mother for wanting those in place OP, just that there are ways and means to action it and try to work with the conditions she has to help her get there as well.

With respect to the room cleaning if she has ADHD that will very likely contribute to why that's the case. You can present 'normally' and still hugely struggle with those things to the point that it isn't a case of the fact she won't clean her room, it may well be a case that she just cannot make her brain get on board with that task, it will feel too overwhelming. For someone who doesn't have it (and I know she does not yet have a diagnosis) it is difficult to describe how impossible it feels to propel yourself into action and do those things, however much you really want to or however much you hate mess.

Could you perhaps go through it with her or offer to sit in the room while she does a set bit at a time, do a huge clearout and then get the room in a place where everything has a labelled spot and is more manageable. Small short bursts of manageable workload with someone there are helpful. Google ADHD 'body doubling' for that concept or ADHD organisation tips/advice. Things like Loop earplugs are helpful for some people, or listening to brown noise.

helpful book for teen girls with ADHD

bendmeoverbackwards · 06/07/2023 10:23

Puffalicious · 06/07/2023 00:59

but these children with challenges will eventually be adults with challenges and have to live in the real world! We as parents need to support them, get them support and, being realistic, help them to learn coping strategies for when their differences cause them issues- because the world will not always or even often, give a shit about their triggers or sensory issues if they don't conform to a very narrow definition of "disabled")

OMG yes. The most helpful insight a professional gave me was a Psychologist at CAMHS who said 'It's a combination of the world adjusting to him and him adjusting to the world. Our world is set up for NT people, so it may always feel that he's got the worse end of the bargain, he'll always need to work harder to be understood/ understand. The world's getting there, but it's got a lot to learn, so in the meantime he needs to learn what the world expects."

Great post @Puffalicious Much better to help our ND dc to find ways to cope with challenges rather than just say they can’t do x y or z due to disabilities.

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OverCCCs · 06/07/2023 16:30

I agree with taking away her pocket
money, and I also echo the poster who suggested reducing her things to a capsule wardrobe, especially since she isn’t going to school and is home all the tj e. She might go ballistic when you begin going through her things, but be clear about why you’re doing it and in the long run having less clutter really will be a very good thing for her. Short term pain for long term gain.

Second, do you rent or own? If you own, can you add a cat flap into your bedroom door, as odd as it may look? If not, there are latches/straps you can buy that keep doors open only wide enough for cats to get through (see adjustable door straps on Amazon). Maybe there’s a way you can use one of those in conjunction with a lock so the cats can still go to and from your room.

sophiasnail · 06/07/2023 16:36

After reading the title, I came on ready to tell you how very unreasonable you are - until I read the details. Clearly what she is doing is not ok. There is not going to be a quick fix for this - she needs to get into a routine of always putting them in the same place so she always knows where they are. This seems like a very obvious/ simple thing for a neuro-typical person, but could be a huge task for someone who isn't. She needs to be encouraged to remember that a small effort now (to put them in "the drawer" when they are clean) will save the panic when she can't find them. This cause and effect may not be obvious to her at the time. Would it be worth having some disposables (you can get organic cotton pads) in for times she needs them?