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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

1000 replies

NewCracker · 04/07/2023 21:12

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

OP posts:
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18
paulmccartneysbagel · 06/07/2023 08:01

I think the trouble with many (NOT ALL!) vegans and what ultimately turned me against it is that it is almost cult like. It is extreme. It is all or nothing. Black and white.

Some vegans I have encountered are actually willing to sacrifice their own health 'for the animals'.

There are many nutrients and amino acids you just can't get from plants. Likewise there are many nutrients you can't get from meat and dairy - that is why it is more realistic to eat a healthy balanced diet.

Nannyfannybanny · 06/07/2023 08:32

Crikey, haven't completely back read! I live in a village,lots of farms. I can see from my window, the sheep and cattle that end up in the butcher in the next road, tottering about in the fields. DH loves lamb,it's his favourite, out of all the meats,it's the one I find smells the worst, come march walking the dog,he looks at the lambs,says they are so sweet, shame they taste so good. I have relatives one of which works in a book dynamic/organic farm,they actually do the wassailing ritual, animal welfare is very important. I do now occasionally eat fish or chicken once a week,I am neither fat,or depressed. I cook from scratch, I agree veggie diet is harder work. DH can run himself up a medium rare steak in 6 minutes, shepherds pie,cook the mince,where's mine is lots of chopping of veg,and much longer to cook. We had our own chicken before we moved, for the eggs, spoilt rotten, complete run of the garden, and used to potter indoors. We grow a lot of our own fruit and veg...in fact DH has just brought in to me, the first peach off our new tree.unfortunately,we couldn't move our last one with us. It's our hobby I am aware not everyone can do this. DH hates salad,so I grow little leaves in a pot just for me.Youngest DD, has just acquired a dragon,who now turns his nose up at shop bought lettuce. Youngest DS,used to laugh at me, while tucking into his McDonald's burger,in his 20s, apologised to me recently,he worked in a butchers once, said the smell made him feel sick, now,at 40, it's yoga, excercise,very healthy eating (he eats the occasional meat/fish and my fruit and veg

Nannyfannybanny · 06/07/2023 08:33

Bio dynamic farm, the phone changed that to 'book"

crackofdoom · 06/07/2023 09:35

fernbreeze
So you claim to have a PhD in ecology, yet refuse to provide any details about it, seem unable to debate at the level one would expect an academic to, or provide links to any solid academic research or publications?

You are quite correct that you don't have to provide any personal details. But then, if you don't, it is to be expected that people will dismiss everything you say as ill informed bollocks.

I smell bullshit, and I don't think it's coming from the slurry from dairy farming that's polluting our streams- for once 🙄

Wanderingowl · 06/07/2023 11:43

malificent7 · 06/07/2023 07:37

I think that the argument that many animals are killed through crop production is a bit pathetic tbh. Of course it happens but those animals are not grown and harvested to be eaten directly by us. Try harder.

How is it poor. Not being eaten doesn't make them any less dead. Do you think that the last thoughts of the people killed as collateral damage in war is to take comfort that their killers didn't specifically want them to die? If anything being collateral damage would feel worse. Your killer just doesn't care either way. Obviously animals don't have that type of thought but humans do. And as humans who mostly think being collateral damage would feel worse, we still carry on and do it anyway.

We kill very possibly far more animals producing edible plants than we do to eating animals. Not eating them makes that more horrific IMHO. And that's before you even consider just how destructive mono cropping is to biodiversity. Odds are vegan diets require more animal death and destroy more of the planet. It's certainly terrible for a person's own health unless they are supplementing with massive amounts of nutrients. If that's what people want to do, more power to them I guess. But they can fuck all the way off to fuck town and then fuck the fuck off some more if they are going to tell me that they are morally superior for it.

familyfuckyouup · 06/07/2023 12:08

@crackofdoom
It's Dr Fernbreeze to you if you don't mind.

Cattenberg · 06/07/2023 13:29

We kill very possibly far more animals producing edible plants than we do to eating animals.

I think this is doubtful, unless you’re talking about insects.

Scrummage · 06/07/2023 13:36

But @Wanderingowl what do you think the animals we eat eat? For a lot of them, it’s those same mono crops you’re so worried out.

About 40% of UK arable land is used to grow wheat and barley for animal feed.

Wanderingowl · 06/07/2023 13:58

Cattenberg · 06/07/2023 13:29

We kill very possibly far more animals producing edible plants than we do to eating animals.

I think this is doubtful, unless you’re talking about insects.

I thought that too but having looked at into it further the rodent deaths in the production of grams of protein is significant. You could easily meet your entire protein needs with 1 cow in a year. But far, far more than 1 rodent will be killed farming as much soy/legumes/etc for the equivalent in protein. Now most people don't eat that much beef. Chicken is definitely the main animal most people eat (counting birds as animals) and we need to kill a lot more chickens to get the equivalent of one cow. Most people eat 20ish chickens a year in addition to a small portion of a cow and sheep plus half a pig and some fish. So say 30 lives a year for their meat, which is roughly similar, maybe a little less than the amount of shrews, mice, rats, rabbits, voles etc killed in the harvesting of protein crops. And I specifically say harvesting as those animals are dragged into the combine harvesters and chopped to pieces in the harvesting process. it's very grim. But for people who heavily eat from cows or big game, their personal death toll is definitely a lot, lot lower than for vegans. Once you add in insects, and why wouldn't you????? Plant farming absolutely kills more than killing your meat.

Wanderingowl · 06/07/2023 14:10

Scrummage · 06/07/2023 13:36

But @Wanderingowl what do you think the animals we eat eat? For a lot of them, it’s those same mono crops you’re so worried out.

About 40% of UK arable land is used to grow wheat and barley for animal feed.

Animal feed is produced from by-products that isn't used for human food. It's the same field of wheat. The flour goes to humans. The vast majority of the bran to animal feed. The same amount of wheat is going to be grown regardless of the animal field derived from the otherwise unwanted bran. That 40% of the food used from the wheat goes to animal feed doesn't mean that 40% more is grown for animal feed. It's just good use of by-products. So no, I don't count the rodents killed in it's harvesting twice.

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 06/07/2023 14:12

Because its delicious 😋
Actually I think it more because meat eaters feel that vegetarians and vegans preach at them and it brings out the stubbornness in people.

umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:28

I actually bought more meat than normal today, having spent this morning reading most of the dam right nasty vindictive and pathetic posts from a lot of the regular vegetarians and vegans trying to harass others off the thread.

I felt it only fair, too I up my consumption and I'm going to love cooking and eating it all. 🍔🍗🍖🌭😋

Soubriquet · 06/07/2023 14:33

umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:28

I actually bought more meat than normal today, having spent this morning reading most of the dam right nasty vindictive and pathetic posts from a lot of the regular vegetarians and vegans trying to harass others off the thread.

I felt it only fair, too I up my consumption and I'm going to love cooking and eating it all. 🍔🍗🍖🌭😋

I’m no vegan, but I think it’s childish and pathetic when people say shit like this

Alyso · 06/07/2023 14:35

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umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:36

Soubriquet No more than some of the childish and pathetic shit posted on the rest of this thread by some.

Besides its my shopping and its true, yummy!

Pinklagoon · 06/07/2023 14:40

Soubriquet · 06/07/2023 14:33

I’m no vegan, but I think it’s childish and pathetic when people say shit like this

Oh do be quiet your starting to sound like @crackofdoom

There seems to be a trend of trying to cancel others who you don't agree with especially towards meat eaters. All mouth and no substance it might work on Twitter and Facebook but not on here.

Alyso · 06/07/2023 14:44

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LuckySantangelo35 · 06/07/2023 14:46

umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:36

Soubriquet No more than some of the childish and pathetic shit posted on the rest of this thread by some.

Besides its my shopping and its true, yummy!

@umpaumpajumps

i didn’t think adults said the word ‘yummy’

towriteyoumustlive · 06/07/2023 14:47

Eating LESS meat is better for the environment.

Lots of vegetarian products are heavily processed and have a very high carbon footprint and if demand went up due to everyone being vegetarian the impact on the planet would be high.

Fish and pork have much lower carbon footprints than red meat. Not much more than tofu.

Animal farmers have been working on ways to lower their carbon footprint.

umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:52

LuckySantangelo35 · 06/07/2023 14:46

@umpaumpajumps

i didn’t think adults said the word ‘yummy’

Adults usually start a sentence with a capital letter also. 😋

umpaumpajumps · 06/07/2023 14:56

@LuckySantangelo35 Talking of yummy you reminded me I fancy Ice cream too.

I better ask their cows is they are okay whilst I'm there 😂

https://www.yummyyorkshire.co.uk/

Yummy Yorkshire | Ice Cream Parlour & Restaurant, Huddersfield

https://www.yummyyorkshire.co.uk

KirstenBlest · 06/07/2023 14:57

Did you have to mention ice cream?

Alyso · 06/07/2023 14:57

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SherbetDips · 06/07/2023 15:00

@RoyalGala It did actually but as you’re so arrogant I don’t really want to talk to you.

Pinklagoon · 06/07/2023 15:02

SherbetDips · 06/07/2023 15:00

@RoyalGala It did actually but as you’re so arrogant I don’t really want to talk to you.

Very true. that's another to add to the list on this tread.

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