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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?

314 replies

Kingcatnight · 04/07/2023 19:09

Admittedly at the end of my tether with men at the moment so possibly BU but honestly right now I'm really struggling to understand what the majority of men appear to have to offer the world that in any way compares to or competes with the (IMO generally superior) social graces, intellectual power, emotional maturity, problem-solving skills, creativity and overall increased pleasantness of women.

I've spent the past week on the road visiting clients, most of whom are white middle class men in their 50's, and having to feign amusement at various childish jokes involving innuendo (not aimed at me, thankfully) and basic, rudimentary word-play. Before anyone suggests it, these clients bring a lot of money into the business I work for so a frosty response or "calling them out on it" would be ill-advised and incredibly damaging to my employer (and me!) but ye gods I'm sick of the self-satisfied look on their smug faces while they wait expectantly for their pathetic jokes to land and for me to respond.

Spent an hour's train ride today sitting in a packed carriage opposite a man who snorted and cleared his sinuses the entire journey, forcing everyone around him to listen to the sound of the snot going down the back of his throat, all whilst reading the absolutely sickening news that the Taliban are further restricting the rights of women in Afghanistan by closing all hair salons. Hair salons which were already only operating after having spray-painted out any pictures showing female faces on their signage. Women in this country are literally no longer allowed a face, let alone access to basic care, education etc.

And at the other far more superficial end of the scale the past few men I've dated, having gone to great lengths to try and vet them carefully beforehand, have turned out to be self-absorbed, selfish lovers who have clearly always relied on the woman's verbal agility and efforts to carry the entire conversation, and who actually have no interest in women beyond having a captive audience for their own accomplishments.

Weekly I hear of various other male relatives, or husbands/partners of friends and colleagues who generally don't pull their weight and give themselves a massive pat on the back for simply being half-competent at their job whilst contributing very little to home life, while their female counterpart is expected to excel as an employee, mother, partner, sister, daughter, friend, neighbour etc.

I say this as someone who has a very generous, caring father, generally decent male siblings etc, so I am aware "not all men", but I genuinely look around me in amazement at the number of smart, warm, dynamic and impressive women in my life who vastly outweigh the equivalent men and on days like today I can't help but think men don't realise how lucky they are that women are still only striving for equality and haven't taken it upon ourselves to overthrow them entirely...

OP posts:
LMNT · 05/07/2023 07:08

I don’t want revenge but I want men to step aside and let women take over.

They have destroyed the planet, society and the lives of countless women.

On your bike Nigel, you had your chance.

Lentilweaver · 05/07/2023 07:14

The quote I posted yesterday was quite accurate, so no idea what pp was going on about.

Anyway, it's irrelevant. On an individual level, many men are lovely, kind, and may even be better than many women. On a populatiob level, male violence and patriarchy is a huge problem. I don't know why this is so hard to admit.

Posters who say that men have built and invented everything while women sat on their fannies really ought to read more about how women have been kept out of education, science and engineering. In a few generations, people will be complaining that Afghan women haven't invented anything🙄 For much of history, Western women were like Afghan women!

Elephantsdontlikechocolate · 05/07/2023 07:20

TrishM80 · 04/07/2023 22:34

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If this was a female only world, and it never had male geniuses, innovators and inventors, let's face it, we'd all be living in mud huts.

Happier and safer in our, no doubt, lesbian relationships, and not having to put up with anymore ghastly and mediocre men in our lives, but living in mud huts nonetheless.

Male infuckinventions - what women were easily allowed to progress to inventing - Mozart's sister was as talented as him but she wasn't allowed to study or perform as it was unbecoming for a girl.
Women can't pursue advanced study in research or doctorate in a way men can because of children and childcare and how society forces traditional roles on them.
In much of the world women aren't allowed to participate in schooling or sport or leave the house.
Women don't get a chance to invent or to develop their innate talents.
Almost all of the world's harm, evil, destruction and violence comes from men. Don't compare it to sparky remarks type of aggression online.

TheaBrandt · 05/07/2023 07:24

Or given the opportunity women would have invented far better stuff. It’s only in the last few generations we’ve been fucking educated 🙄. Talk about hands tied behind your back.

My great grandmother went to university one of the first despite getting a better class degree than most men she wasn’t actually given a real degree just a “permit to teach”. 🙄🙄

Elephantsdontlikechocolate · 05/07/2023 07:26

Growingouttogether · 04/07/2023 21:36

Haven’t read the full thread but YANBU. Often wonder what a world would look like run by women.

With the current world set up, where only psychopaths are able to get to the top?
Generally, nice kind people don't strive for power, domination or control.

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 07:26

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Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 07:27

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Lentilweaver · 05/07/2023 07:27

Both my grandmothers were forced into arranged marriages before they were 18. ( I am not British by birth). Their husbands were doctors and scientists and got to impress the world with their fabulous achievements.

Makes me so angry when women go on about how men are much cleverer. Because they were given the fucking opportunity. I think so many British women forgotten how it used to be and still is in most of the world.

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:28

The mind boggles at all of this

People who don't know their history and assume it's only men who are any good at anything ( and implied that's their nature not society )

People who assume that all men are bad self absorbed people ( again implied by nature not society )

As a feminist I don't want a female take over , I want the best person for each role independent of their sex

Because clearly not all women are fantastic and clever and intelligent . If they were they wouldn't fall into the trap of just trying to have new stereotypes to their favour ( men bad women good ) , they would get rid of the stereotypes and treat people on merit

Elephantsdontlikechocolate · 05/07/2023 07:29

TheaBrandt · 05/07/2023 07:24

Or given the opportunity women would have invented far better stuff. It’s only in the last few generations we’ve been fucking educated 🙄. Talk about hands tied behind your back.

My great grandmother went to university one of the first despite getting a better class degree than most men she wasn’t actually given a real degree just a “permit to teach”. 🙄🙄

Absolutely they would have produced more and better inventions given the same the opportunity as enjoyed by men.

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:29

Let's try a quiz

Who invented computing ?

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 07:30

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Lentilweaver · 05/07/2023 07:31

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:29

Let's try a quiz

Who invented computing ?

Ada Lovelace!

napody · 05/07/2023 07:41

I generally agree on the big points, but just a small point: I know quite a few nice, decent men who genuinely pull their weight. Recently it's dawned on me that getting into a conversation with any of them is the most tedious torture. Taking forever to make a point, shit jokes (as in the OP) , no 'sparking off each other' in conversation as there would be with the women I know.

Staygoldponyboystaygold · 05/07/2023 07:41

YANBU

Morewineplease10 · 05/07/2023 07:44

Read the first page of thread - too depressing to read much for but YANBU!!

Full agreement here. I'm in the AMALT brigade!

@Superdupes I'm sadly in the same position as you - and still struggling. Please PM me if you have any tips on processing.

SamanthaCaine · 05/07/2023 07:54

Elephantsdontlikechocolate · 05/07/2023 07:20

Male infuckinventions - what women were easily allowed to progress to inventing - Mozart's sister was as talented as him but she wasn't allowed to study or perform as it was unbecoming for a girl.
Women can't pursue advanced study in research or doctorate in a way men can because of children and childcare and how society forces traditional roles on them.
In much of the world women aren't allowed to participate in schooling or sport or leave the house.
Women don't get a chance to invent or to develop their innate talents.
Almost all of the world's harm, evil, destruction and violence comes from men. Don't compare it to sparky remarks type of aggression online.

But back here in England today, I work with some immensely talented female engineers and scientists who are flourishing.

The problem of course is that many women don't want to be engineers and do the work that shapes our world so heavily. The opportunity is there, there's just no interest, despite people like me visiting schools and doing outreach etc. I've done this for my entire career and it's made very little difference. The progress is glacial.

If women want change, become the change and start actually designing and producing things with female input. Men are happy for that to happen but only if women choose to collaborate. Perhaps then, we may have cars that are safer for women, products that actually meet all of our needs and men don't have to either guess or make things that suit men only.

Your post sounds like a whinge. We need encouragement.

SamanthaCaine · 05/07/2023 07:55

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:29

Let's try a quiz

Who invented computing ?

How about the circular saw?

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:56

Next

What's the first name of an amazing astronomer whose surname is Herschel

midgetastic · 05/07/2023 07:57

Tabitha Babbitt ???

ThatsAboutEnoughOfThat · 05/07/2023 08:00

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I have been on Mumsnet since 2003. In that time I have traversed lots of different boards.

Had a couple of babies, been supported through raising them while working and undertaking a degree, a masters, two international moves, a couple of family deaths, all sorts of life's up and downs.

By women. Women who are often fed up of men's bullshit.

Now I am heading into menopause, once again supported by women, some on Mumsnet many in real life, all of them fed the fuck up.

cuckyplunt · 05/07/2023 08:02

We’d have fucked up just as badly, given the opportunity to do so..

Lentilweaver · 05/07/2023 08:03

The problem of course is that many women don't want to be engineers and do the work that shapes our world so heavily. The opportunity is there, there's just no interest, despite people like me visiting schools and doing outreach etc. I've done this for my entire career and it's made very little difference. The progress is glacial.

In my country of origin, India, women* *make up nearly 43% of the total graduates in STEM, but just 14% of scientists, engineers, and technologists. It must be because they are not clever and ambitious like the menz. ( sarcasm).

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 08:05

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BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 05/07/2023 08:07

There's no real ego with women, collectively. Male ego drives most of everything.

Dh and I were watching Interstellar again last night and I was saying to him how a Mother would literally never do what MMcconaghys chatacter does. Dh insisted we would because it would save the planet.

No, I said, it's a chance to possibly save the planet that many men before him have tried and failed. A mother would hunker down with her ignorant children who didn't know the world was ending and fill their last remaining decades with love and memories. That missing out 7 of their years for every hour I was away would be pointless and its male ego that drove MM to do it.

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