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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?

314 replies

Kingcatnight · 04/07/2023 19:09

Admittedly at the end of my tether with men at the moment so possibly BU but honestly right now I'm really struggling to understand what the majority of men appear to have to offer the world that in any way compares to or competes with the (IMO generally superior) social graces, intellectual power, emotional maturity, problem-solving skills, creativity and overall increased pleasantness of women.

I've spent the past week on the road visiting clients, most of whom are white middle class men in their 50's, and having to feign amusement at various childish jokes involving innuendo (not aimed at me, thankfully) and basic, rudimentary word-play. Before anyone suggests it, these clients bring a lot of money into the business I work for so a frosty response or "calling them out on it" would be ill-advised and incredibly damaging to my employer (and me!) but ye gods I'm sick of the self-satisfied look on their smug faces while they wait expectantly for their pathetic jokes to land and for me to respond.

Spent an hour's train ride today sitting in a packed carriage opposite a man who snorted and cleared his sinuses the entire journey, forcing everyone around him to listen to the sound of the snot going down the back of his throat, all whilst reading the absolutely sickening news that the Taliban are further restricting the rights of women in Afghanistan by closing all hair salons. Hair salons which were already only operating after having spray-painted out any pictures showing female faces on their signage. Women in this country are literally no longer allowed a face, let alone access to basic care, education etc.

And at the other far more superficial end of the scale the past few men I've dated, having gone to great lengths to try and vet them carefully beforehand, have turned out to be self-absorbed, selfish lovers who have clearly always relied on the woman's verbal agility and efforts to carry the entire conversation, and who actually have no interest in women beyond having a captive audience for their own accomplishments.

Weekly I hear of various other male relatives, or husbands/partners of friends and colleagues who generally don't pull their weight and give themselves a massive pat on the back for simply being half-competent at their job whilst contributing very little to home life, while their female counterpart is expected to excel as an employee, mother, partner, sister, daughter, friend, neighbour etc.

I say this as someone who has a very generous, caring father, generally decent male siblings etc, so I am aware "not all men", but I genuinely look around me in amazement at the number of smart, warm, dynamic and impressive women in my life who vastly outweigh the equivalent men and on days like today I can't help but think men don't realise how lucky they are that women are still only striving for equality and haven't taken it upon ourselves to overthrow them entirely...

OP posts:
RoseslnTheHospital · 04/07/2023 23:28

The Atwood quote is referenced here:

www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780191866692.001.0001/q-oro-ed6-00000530;jsessionid=3D59C5728C266F887B058D1421A43ABD

The full quote is not much different to the shortened version imo.

AutisticLegoLover · 04/07/2023 23:41

I needed this thread tonight OP after being upset yet again by my abusive exH and our gaslighting daughters who are taking after him. I'm going to fall asleep plotting my revenge on him even though I'll never do anything of course, it's good to mentally get that revenge.

CherryGenoa · 04/07/2023 23:46

@AutisticLegoLover 💐

ImustLearn2Cook · 04/07/2023 23:48

To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?

That’s a good question. I can’t speak for all women. However, speaking for myself, I regard myself as an equal. I am equal. I am neither superior nor inferior. So, fighting for equal rights, equal opportunity, and to be regarded as an equal is a fight worth fighting for.

Revenge will not achieve equality.

It’s not healthy to be vengeful. I don’t want to become vengeful because I don’t want to do that to myself.

I am equal. I want to be regarded and treated as an equal. That is worth fighting for.

Maddy70 · 04/07/2023 23:50

Revenge only really destroys the people dishing it out.

If someone has wronged you don't allow them to live in your thoughts.. Move on that's the best revenge

DailyMaui · 05/07/2023 00:11

TreesWelliesKnees · 04/07/2023 20:05

Because we've been conditioned to be 'kind'.
Because we're busy raising kids and working hard and carrying the world's mental load.
Because we're fucking knackered.

Oh god... this.

And I type as someone who is about to go on holiday and has done ALL the fucking mental load of said holiday (everything: flights, hotels, apartments, ferries, transfers etc etc etc and making sure it is actually paid for) while working full time in a very busy job that includes travel and mad fucking hours), moving DS from one student accommodation to another and driving him hundreds of miles home AND sorted clothing etc for DD's prom while DH has only had to get Euros...

He managed to get the fuck all useless amount of 200 for a fortnight's holiday in a country known for preferring cash...

He's actually only JUST found out that I organised all the removal firms for us moving to another country back in the day because I was reading the removals thread and exclaimed "wow we were quoted half that to move thousands of miles away!" "I dunno" he said "your work sorted that." No babe. I sorted that, work just paid. He's like the man on the comedy sketch who thinks that the table is magic because it gets cleared every time he puts something on it.*

And before you say "why don't you...?" I have tried:
asking
asking again
couples counselling
asking
having a meeting every week to divvy up the mental load (so now I get to tick box things on his agenda he hasn't done...)
asking all the fucking time

When my daughter was small I used to exclaim in wonder that I did not understand why women weren't running the world given that my daughter and other girls her age were absolute fucking forces of nature.

I still wonder. We should be. Maybe it is time to get all French on their arses.**

*Here is that sketch for those who have never seen it

**I'm obvs referring to the revolution, not Emily in Paris.

The Magic Coffee Table

Original by @TroyKinne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEj6fGJAVo

FOJN · 05/07/2023 00:28

Yes I was once flashed as a young woman on the tube by a grubby old man with a hole cut in his trousers, yes I've experienced overt sexism in the work place, yes I've spent a life time not going out by myself after dark.

I could write my own list in the same inconsequential tone. I found myself reciting it to a male friend one day as if it was nothing and it struck me that I was numb to sexual assault and male violence because it was just so normal. Yours is a list which could finish blah blah blah to indicate we all know how it goes and it's so common place there is no need for you to provide further detail.

I don't know a single woman who doesn't at a bare minimum have half a dozen stories about being inappropriately touched by men, sexual harassment/misogyny at work, being followed or intimidated by some creep bloke, older men making suggestive comments to them when they were teenagers or being verbally abused by men for not giving them the attention they demand. Many have experienced serious sexual assault, rape or domestic violence.

Appalling behaviour from women does happen but in my experience it's been less common and I expect better from women which is why it always feels like a greater betrayal.

When I say I expect better from women it's a relative thing; I don't expect much from men so my standards for women will be higher by default.

1980to1989 · 05/07/2023 01:31

@BeautifulSloth you have articulated my feelings perfectly here.

I've felt like this for a while and no longer have any interest in dating as a result.

Very happy on my own, so can live with that quite easily, but what does make me feel sad and angry is that doing something as simple as a walk for just half an hour once the sun has set, is a stupid thing to do because... Men.

To all the posters who have highlighted male violence, YES, YES, YES. I've had my drink spiked. I've said "no", and had a guy do exactly what he wanted to do, regardless. I've ended up in the hospital after being strangled and having the back of my head pummeled. I've been chased home. I've been followed. I've been flashed, I've been groped. It's not news is it. This becomes a regular synopsis of a womans life by the time she reaches a certain age (I'm mid 40's now for context).

Sure, women can be bitchy and mean as hell. But I've never feared for my life as a result of one. If there's a bitchy woman that I don't know and have never met before and who I pass in the street, she isn't going to rape me or follow me home. I don't need to walk past her with my hands in my pocket with my keys in my hand and my hand in the shape of a fist... Just in case.

I don't believe all men are as I, and other posters have described. It's just so sad that so many are.

I'd love for men, all men (because we can't tell which ones are decent and which ones will hurt us), to just fuck off the earth for a month and leave us women in peace. I really want to go for a walk regardless of the time of day for gods sake. Then after a month can we have a vote and decide if we actually want them back?

Highandlows · 05/07/2023 03:12

Op why do you have the need to describe the skin colour of the men you work with?

Revenge? You sound like an Incel which is ironic.

The most useless and childish man I know. A mummy”s boy at 50 was raised this way by a stupid woman. He is the result of her upbringing.

ThatsAboutEnoughOfThat · 05/07/2023 03:57

I would like revenge and to burn it all down and often find myself wondering what the vast majority of men are for and how we would be much better off without them.

However, I know why we don't.

I have a husband and 2 sons who I love to distraction.

These are irreconcilable positions.

h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght · 05/07/2023 03:59

I don’t want equality. I want liberation. Revenge would be nice but I don’t set my sights that high.

Anyotherdude · 05/07/2023 05:33

All of these men have likely been brought up by Mothers (and Fathers).

I’m Mother to one DS. I have had long conversations with him during his adolescence and beyond about equality of women and men, attitudes towards sex, toxic masculinity and casual sexism. Conversations that my DH has fully supported.

Have all Mothers and Fathers done this?

I can honestly report that never once have I heard him express any misogynistic or sexist views; he doesn’t have any friends who do, and he calls out colleagues if he finds them displaying such attitude.

Maybe the riposte to such toxic male attitude would be to ask them if their DP’s brought them up to behave like that, and would they be ashamed to see their behaviour now…

RantyAnty · 05/07/2023 05:41

It would be nice if they fecked off for a fortnight so we could just go out and walk around late at night.

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 05:45

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ThatsAboutEnoughOfThat · 05/07/2023 05:54

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Were you under the impression that women are all required to be "Nice" and "Kind"?

I am not, and I am no longer sorry about that.

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 06:11

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WandaWonder · 05/07/2023 06:11

If men are so terrible why on earth do women spend so long and put so much effort into getting and 'keeping' one?

And before anyone mentions being conditioned too do women ever have an original thought in their head as everything seems to be 'oh women are conditioned too do it' whatever it is

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 06:15

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Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 06:16

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YouAreNotBatman · 05/07/2023 06:17

WandaWonder · 05/07/2023 06:11

If men are so terrible why on earth do women spend so long and put so much effort into getting and 'keeping' one?

And before anyone mentions being conditioned too do women ever have an original thought in their head as everything seems to be 'oh women are conditioned too do it' whatever it is

They won’t answer this one.
Easier just to whine about the horrible men, while Dear Nigel & Nigel Jr. sits in the other end of the couch.

Itsdecisiontimeisitnot · 05/07/2023 06:19

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Nellodee · 05/07/2023 06:23

Studied repeatedly show around 15% of men have or would rape if they thought there would be no comeback (which lets face it, there isn’t). So, we’re going to run into horrendous men every day, whilst still quite possibly having very decent men in our lives.

How does this make women hypocrites saying “not my Nigel”?

There are no similar studies showing 15% of women would behave similarly badly.

eighteeneightysix · 05/07/2023 06:24

StephanieSuperpowers · 04/07/2023 19:20

YANBU.

Overall, men just don't pull the weight, as a sex, that women do.

Apart from the fact that pretty much everything, everything was built and is now maintained by men

Nellodee · 05/07/2023 06:26

Men do more physical labour. Women do more work in total, due to the amount of unpaid labour they do in addition. Read Invisible Women for hard data on this, worldwide.

cheese? · 05/07/2023 06:40

Lots of claiming to be kind before going on a hateful tirade in this thread!

We aren't free until everyone is free.

Patriarchy is bad for everyone.

Be the change you want to see in the world.