Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

There not 'they'

@Goldenbear i am not a private school parent. My children went to both and due to bullying my DD went to a school in the 'needs improvement' category as nobody else would take her. I am seriously offended by your post. It was her best school ever. Would you send your child there? Do not come at me without reading my posts. I work with a charity that champions inclusion. I tick every box on diversity, BAME, SEN, disabled, LGBTQ+. As a pp said walk in my shoes before you think you know me. You are taking bollocks.

I am defending the OP, I don't need to know you to do that, you are stating that they have been aggressive but they categorically haven't.

Incidentally, you don't know me either I mean it's an anonymous forum so I'm posting on a topic that I have an opinion on and I don't think it is fair on the OP to state that they are aggressive.

@Goldenbear you are still talking rubbish. Good luck with defending the OP. I shan't be doing it again.

I don't think I have been awkward on this thread, but a little controversial possibly, on occasion. It makes for a more spirited discussion IMO.

And, if I may say so, thank you to all participants. Not my dogs, nor my game but we must be nearing the thread limit, so let's agree to disagree peaceably, knowing we shall probably continue the discussions elsewhere! It has been interesting and informative, so thanks to every participant.

Why am I talking rubbish, I've literally just stated that the OP isn't aggressive because that isn't noticeable at all.

Literally no one has done this. People have argues against demonstrable untruths and distortions. I’m sorry you find this tricky to deal with.

@Goldenbear also please read previous posts before you put members in one camp. I did not comment to knock the OP's choices just to add my own experience. Nothing is without risk even being misquoted on munsnet by people who can't be arsed to read pp before they jump in on another poster.

FancyFran
Until people have really paid attention to the range of experiences out there, they won't get it because it's uncomfortable.

I mentioned up thread that I look back on my previous views on the private school issue and am embarrassed by them. I was a fully signed up member of the state=good, would never send my children private if I had the money, because obviously I was one of the good guys who cared. Then I started properly listening, noticing and realising what positions other families were in, and the house of cards came falling down.

Properly paying attention to what other families experienced made it very clear to me that what I'd been patting myself on the back for was bullshit. The issues were complicated and families make the best decisions in their circumstances, many of which were circumstances that most of us are unlikely to find ourselves in.
Would I choose to keep my children in some of those situations if I had the means to offer them something that was appropriate for their wellbeing and education? Of course I wouldn't. Most parents want what's best for the children and many of us are fortunate to have not walked in other people's shoes.

@AgathaSpencerGregson and thank you. I'm off to Bedfordshire before the nutters step in x

You stated the OP was aggressive, I don't agree, if anything they have been very accommodating. I have been on the thread pretty much from the outset. I'm not attacking you, that's your perception, I'm disagreeing with you and with your statement that the OP is 'aggressive' I don't think they are- sorry that you find that offensive.

Okay hun, pretty sure we all got it.

How is it a 'demonstrable untruth' that paying for an education is not viewing it as a commodity?

In the spirit of the thread.

I have disagreed with Goldenbear on most points, but not this one. OP has stuck with the thread and been polite on most disagreements. That it's a 50/50 score doesn't make it uncontroversial debate; IMO it suggests that there is a very live and nuanced discussion of important issues that, so much so that it really matters that everyone should weigh in with a view.

Yes, it has certainly been a very interesting debate. I have resorted to a bit of mockery but to be fair to the OP they have not done that.

Your utopian reasoning is totally naive but it's not wrong to send them to nearest comp. Their success isn't defined by their school nearly as much as their own self discipline and effort.

Education is a service and it is always paid for. Teachers in the state sector are not working for nothing. I fail to see the problem with this.

Thank you

And thank you too

I have learnt a lot on the thread to be fair

Yes, that is one way of looking at it.

I think the private school parents are being a bit unfairly criticised. I have made it clear I don't see private school pupils as some kind of superior beings. It is no advantage to a state school class to have my children in it. I have said that some private schools and state grammars select by how people do in the entrance test -which is largely a fact. I don't dispute the comments about how the law applies to people with disabilities mentioned above but the bottom line is the part of the private and state system which select by ability will end up with children who do better in the tests to get in than those private and state schools who take across the ability range.

Selection to get in was one of the factors I used in choosing private schools as (for me but not most private school paernts) was that I wanted a single sex school. I certainly have said I am a free market capitalist who votes Tory and have no problems with parents who can pay choosing to use fee paying schools just as in the narrow category of the 20% who pay fees at sixth form level (and about 7% earlier on) plenty choose not to pay fees.

One of DD’s state grammars that is very successful academically is really struggling with hiring Science and Maths teachers now. Part of me wonders whether this type of policy is aimed primarily at getting some private school teachers back into the state sector? There is an interesting thread running in Education at the moment about what state school teachers really want. A lot of it is working conditions that private school teachers enjoy. Smaller classes, resources, more freedom to teach in your own way, less micro management from the top, getting rid of the narrow assessment/marking requirements etc etc
Whilst I don’t have kids in the private sector, I have tons of friends who teach in the private sector. Most also do other things like write novels, plays, compose, are ABRSM examiners, used to write A level papers etc etc now textbooks etc Some are allowed research sabbaticals and they obviously get even more holidays. Some are there for the discounts. Some just love the private school bubble and collegiate atmosphere, it seems.

The reason I don’t like the VAT policy is simply because I believe it to be disingenuous. There are so many real problems in many state schools right now that urgently need sorting out and I think this is the kind of policy which will be used as an excuse. Oh look- we have managed to get some money from the private sector and are investing it in the state sector blah blah blah. But nobody is actually going to properly sort out the issues in the state sector.

Let’s face- we have had massive inflation and underinvestment and the state simply needs to acknowledge that properly educating children is going to cost more like 10000 per year per child, if it is going to be done properly.

If it’s needs to be that much you’re better off letting people pay twice if they choose rather than forcing many more to join the state sector. If people pay the tax but pay again elsewhere it’s more money into the overall system.

Some countries get good results and use actual tax rebates for those switching to private health or education to free up state resources. People are far too chippy / envious of others for that to happen here though.

Late to thread but better school does not = private. Many of them are rubbish . DS went to a private school but only because the one he was in catchment for a friend of mine said I would not send a child of mine there . She taught there. I believe latterly the school has improved hugely. DS's school was good with eg dyslexia but can't say all SEN - it worked out well for him. But but I am not saying all private schools are better than state - exactly the opposite.