Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

So you don't agree that posts like this saying there's no way I'd be getting tangled up in a left wing purity spiral where I'd give my children a worse set of opportunities in order to maintain the right type of political image. and what matters is they apparently really, really, really care about not doing anything that might give their children any advantage, because they're the good guys who hate inequality is implying I'm a mum who puts my political views ahead of my children aka a bad mum. I'm just being sensitive. Righto.

Also, what insults?

Where you went all weird and did the bad faith post and this cagey I know their motivation stuff.

I find all this odd.

I’m not hiding what I think. I’m being explicit.

I think the VAT proposal is a terrible idea, the numbers don’t stack up.

I have not even thought you were a bad mother on this or the other thread and other stuff you have put forward (scroll back if you need a reminder I’m not going to). So yeh I’m going to correct that.

Another vote from me for the view that many private schools are overrated. Small classes only work if you find kids you get on with your class. There just weren’t enough academic, non sporty kids in the independent school my DC attended for his first few school years. There was definitely an absence of nurturing too. Teaching no better and definitely would have benefited from some structure as in following national curriculum/taking SATs etc. Traditionally, when I say this people criticise me, but I do believe 3 sessions of sport per week and fancy sports days at proper athletics ground in the town from year 3 is only of benefit to a really sporty potential sportsman/woman. Basically, you don’t necessarily get what you pay for if resources are all about sport.

Hmm. Was that an insult? And why do you feel it was particularly aimed at you?

there will be good and bad people at both. In my experience there were a lot of snobby entitled people at private schools and some rough nasty bullies at state schools.

Because you quoted me and ended with this

Anyway, you are another poster I'm not responding to again because you aren't posting in good faith

I don’t think it can be any more direct than that can it?

I'm a mum who puts my political views ahead of my children aka a bad mum. I'm just being sensitive. Righto
Again, nobody said you're a bad mum.

(Bangs head against wall)

Like has been said endless times.

• picking state when you've got a good state option and lucky enough to have not been in the situations other face doesn't equal state on principle
• it most likely equals state on principle when the options available are a good offer for the child

If choosing state is a matter of deeply held principle and because of this principle private would never be an option then either:

1. State will be chosen and insisted upon even where the state options aren't suitable for the children (note nothing here about sink schools and other ways to try and miss the point)

Or

1. They wouldn't actually send their child to a school where their wellbeing was adversely affected and the education wasn't acceptable

If 1 is the case then putting politics above a child is poor parenting in my opinion.

If 2 then sending state isn't actually the sort of deep fundamentally held moral belief that's claimed.

Most parents would not put their politics above their children because most people (you included OP) are likely to be decent parents. Most parents are not going to see their children come to harm because most parents consider their children more important than politics.

Which comes back to the fact that it's very easy for people to stand on soapboxes and claim the moral high ground when they've not walked a mile in someone else's shoes.

I know a family who haven't been able to find a private school to take their SEN child. His needs aren't severe enough for specialist SEN schools and other private schools don't want to put the time and effort in for a student who might not make the grade (because they are a business, not a charity). So that child is now in state provision with parents ready and willing to pay.

I've also read horror stories on here about private schools being quite brutal in getting rid of children who aren't meeting the grade - again because they need to maintain their image that parents pay to get exceptional results.

I think its a bit of a fiction that private schools are a better option than state if you have a child with particular requirements.

But you have had people on this very thread (like me) saying the opposite. Do you reject our lived experience because it does not fit with your prejudices?

My experience is only MY experience. I am not naive enough to think it applies to everyone. But why just dismiss what my experience is like that? Because it does not fit with your preferred narrative, I can only deduce.

OK. I am offended that you posted a disingenuous "I don't know why OP is so sensitive" reply, when I've said multiple times why I am offended.

A whole bunch of posters repeatedly imply I'm ignorant, privileged, ideologically driven, judgemental and you post to say I'm "being sensitive".

Now either you agree with the other posters, or you aren't reading the thread properly and are entrenched in your own view, or you have an unpleasant habit of dismissing people as "sensitive" and hysterical.

That's why I quoted you. Happy you don't think I'm a bad mother though.

Just do what you like. No need for mumsnetter opinions

Interestingly, the polling is split 50/50.

I think its a bit of a fiction that private schools are a better option than state if you have a child with particular requirements.

And maybe for you, you'll never have to know if it's true or not. If that's the case, count yourself fortunate in more ways than just your person wealth.

Interestingly, the polling is split 50/50.
That doesn't surprise me.

It's not particularly controversial.

If someone has the money for private school fees, but the state offer is good then it's not a controversial thing to do to send a child to a state school and keep your money for other things you enioy. Thousands of parents do that every year. It's not a big deal.

Other people might feel that their children would gain something by going private over the state options if they had the means and would choose to send their children private. Also not a big deal.

I've worked in schools where a lot of parents probably could have afforded private and chosen not to. If I was in their situation I'd do exactly the same because the state school was great.

I assume this is meant to be to me

Of course I don’t think you’re a bad mother. We use state, it’s been excellent. I have zero regrets.

I was on that other thread and part of what instigated this one so on seeing some of your conclusions on what people were saying on the other one I thought you had extrapolated incorrectly. So posted here to put down my actual views.

On the sensitive on this issue, the fact that you claim people thought or think you’re a bad mum when it’s not the case made me wonder if you have some extra sensitivity around state v private

I suppose because I have no regrets on the schools we use other people choosing differently doesn’t make me do the same leap.

The post where you were offended that schools depend on the area seemed to be coming from the same place. They do depend on the area so the reaction seemed a strong one.

Send your child to the private school. State schools are on their arses. That's why teachers are striking. They can't educate your child properly and they definitely can't guarantee to keep your child safe, no matter how much they might want to. If you can, you should.

School spending varies so much per capita across the country; I think I recall reading on this thread that the range was £4.5k - £6.5k. Locally, we are towards the lower end of the range, but it's a predominantly rural county and while it looks charming, there's real poverty not far beneath the surface.

A few years back the Lib Dems suggested a personal educational budget which could be spent where you like, private or state. It actually happens in nurseries so the mechanism is there already. It was shouted down of course but I believe you can do that in some Scandinavian countries but few utilise it due to excellent educational policies. As a mother of a SEN DC I know some schools spend a huge amount of time fighting reasonable adjustments (and employing fancy lawyers). Many schools actively discourage diversity and lack true inclusion. At least with private provision you can demand good practice. You're paying. I looked at over twenty private schools and most were full of egomaniacs. It was hard to find a good one.
However some state schools want to compete with their private neighbours and demand uniforms costing nearly £500. Why are they doing this? A blazer doesn't make people belong, kindness does. The system is broken, teachers are leaving in droves and few are coming into the profession. Yes there are some feckless parents but in the main people want a good result for everyone. This is mumsnet, so politics will come into it but people sometimes have no choice but to use private if the alternative is bullying and a lack of support for neuro diverse or disabled children. Leafy comps often don't want the different so as I have previously said up thread true diversity is very rare but you may get it in big cities.
The OP felt that they would achieve a more balanced education for their DC by using a state school but it all depends on where! My ex boss, a multi millionaire wouldn't dream of paying for a school place for her three boys but each to their own.

FancyFran
Personal budgets could be interesting. I'd be a little concerned in reality it would turn into large scale privatisation so would need careful handling.

My gripe is how much money is spent on independent SEN schools with astronomical fees, often funded by LAs (so taxpayers) following EHCP appeals because there's been such poor investment in special education. When you look at many of the companies running some of these schools they are also making a fortune on residential care placements too. Both residential care and special education should be funded in the state sector and dare I say it, the money that goes on those placements would go a LOT further in the state system than into the coffers of large care companies.

It comes back to complex problems requiring complex solutions doesn't it.

@LolaSmiles i couldn't agree more. Most special school places cost £45-60,k per year. More than the infamous Eton. Lots of state special schools were closed and 'inclusion' was the buzz word. Unfortunately it came without training and I believe a PGCE still only includes one day afforded to special needs.
I have supported a charity that helps find provision for children not fine in school and I can tell you it isn't getting any better. Mild ASD can be managed quite well with an open heart and mind. Unfortunately there are far too many schools without the above who don't have the time or inclination to provide education for all. Should we ship these children off elsewhere? I don't think so but I understand why an ever growing cohort of ASD children end up in smaller private schools who need to fill places and have the time and smaller class sizes. Yes there is a place for schools like Priory Court and they do a sterling job. It is expensive but a decent society is what makes us who we are. We need to think of the bigger picture. I was shocked by the French system of 'behind closed doors' when I discovered it recently. My child could have been subjected to that if we had taken up a relocation.
Nobody has all the answers but I hope to God our next education secretary has actually been a teacher and was educated in the state system. Otherwise I am standing for parliament myself (sadly I couldn't due to a racy past!).

FancyFran
It's heartbreaking and concerning isn't it?
I agree with you that Priory (and similar) places have a role, but certainly nowhere near what's going on now.

I have friends who work in a similar line of work to the charity you mentioned and they're saying the same. It isn't getting any better. Most mainstreams are fine for the children who fit the box well enough to get through,with different levels of success, and some will thrive, but for many it's a totally different world and that doesn't just mean failing schools like some on this thread seem to think.

My DC aren't at GCSE yet but I sometimes look at my students who have their normal school day, plus after school revision sessions and the hours of tutoring in different subjects to close the gaps from years of underfunding and staffing issues. Hand on heart I wouldn't blame any parent with the means who said "I don't want my child doing the equivalent of a 6th day at school in private tutoring, so I'll pay private and give my child their evenings back because their wellbeing matters". I really couldn't blame them.

My child left a highly regarded state secondary - I watched him being diminished by the noise and disruption and 30 teachers leaving at the end of the school year . He was in the best school in the town so there was nowhere else to go but private. Can’t tell how old your DC are but your experience of the state sector may well change

Regarding SEN - not something I mentioned in my reply, but many independent settings aren’t interested in dealing with any SEN issues. We got the impression where we were that ‘Learning Support’ was mostly helping the not too bright sparks who were good at sports improve their maths. I suppose this is all covered by being ‘selective’.

The OP felt that they would achieve a more balanced education for their DC by using a state school but it all depends on where!
I never said that. I said
I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.

Please stop putting words in my mouth.