Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

It’s tricky as the op has confirmed this is about another thread.

I’m finding some of the conclusions off and will say that as they are just not correct

I don’t agree with VAT proposal as a user of bother sectors at no point have I thought the stuff op writes (bad mother etc) so I want to clear that up

It depends where you are sending them I guess. They’d mix more with a variety of cultures at some private schools than some secondary schools if that’s what you’re worried about but I do understand what you are getting at. DB teaches at a Catholic secondary and there is very rarely a child there who isn’t Catholic. His wife teaches at a private school which is very multicultural.

Send them where you like. Just be careful not to bring them up thinking all children at private schools are x, y and z and that your children are somehow very different and better than them as they went to a state school.

People who have money spend it in lots of different ways and I’m sure your children will benefit differently down the line.

I'm put out by posters assuming i have no experience of anything other than an outstanding comp in a leafy green middle class utopia where everyone is well to do. And that I paid to move to said suburban utopia which probably cost me the same as private fees, therefore I'm an ill informed ideological zealot who is being hypocritical

Pointing out that you have a good option available to you and you have the funds and willingness to top up with private tutors and privately funded enrichment opportunities so you're talking from a position of privilege isn't accusing you have having an outstanding leafy comp.

🙄

It's simply pointing out that you have an offer available to you that is good and good for your child (and is amusing that you claim you won't pay for anything that props up educational advantage whilst also being willing to pay for a range of things that prop up educational advantage).

There are many others out there who don't have that.

Some have the means to offer an alternative. Some don't.

Unfortunately any discussion about the situation in many state schools leads to some posters claiming folk are saying all state schools are sink schools, well actually they're not sink schools, plenty of middle class kids go to state schools etc. Like a PP said, there's a willingness to discuss the issues in the state system, until there's a thread about private schools and suddenly everything is rosy.

The fact remains that:

• some children have a great state offer
• some children have a good state offer
• some parents will take a state offer and top up (and in turn the school gets high results, looks good but it's propped up by parents paying for tutors)
• some children have a poor state offer
• some children have on paper a good state offer but once they get there it turns out that they have a range of experiences that mean they're not doing well, even if the school is good for other people
• some children get independent education funded through their EHCP/LA
• some parents are fortunate to have the means to intervene if they feel their children's education and wellbeing requires it
• some families don't have the option and have to hope that school and third sector offers can provide what is needed
• some families spend years waiting for EOTAS and specialist provision and their child misses out.
• some parents choose independent education
• some parents choose home education
• some families would be financially better off paying private fees than moving into catchment to get a good state offer

Most people don't give a damn what decisions other people make for their children because most people are reasonable enough to understand that everyone's situations are different (in terms of their local offer, in terms of family circumstances, in terms of individual child needs). Most adults have moved beyond a silly tribal student politics outlook.

OP, I was going to respond but @LolaSmiles has said it all. Why you are offended by people saying state school and independent schools vary region to region, I've no idea. Nobody is insulting you. I've said myself, in a different area we no doubt would have sent our kids to the local comp. Perhaps in a grammar area, some of our kids might have got in, but not all. Who knows?

My nieces and nephews had a mix of private and state education, from fairly comfortable parents - they are a very nice mix of beach bums, highly paid, and waste of spaces. Take your pic. I’d go for nice people over highly educated any day. Can’t tell what they’ll end up doing, however much money you spend.

We hate schools full stop.
We home educate until it's time for college.
Then eldest Grandson gets to college and realised he was way above his peers .
College has more understanding and approachable teachers. No big set rules .

The outrage about this is definitely being manufactured by the press, in fact posters suggesting they are the victims of the small minded mindset as witnessed in Brexit, are completely off the mark as in actual fact (as well they know) that mindset has more in common with the outrage from parents whose children attend private school and are going to fall victim to these horrible commie principles 🙄and like Brexit, the paper that is championing this cause, is The Daily Mail!

The private school is a business and as such would adapt accordingly to make savings, pupil/staff ratio, they could apply to become state funded academies. Regardless of all this, it is a really unhealthy principle to remove an entire section of society i.e the wealthy and have them cut of from the rest of us with no interaction, no relatability, like it would be if you had school only for the fortuneless.

They have a exemplary system in Finland why don't we try to emulate that rather than widening the gap. It definitely feels it is not about choice with some it is just about purely not wanting to associate with people you perceive as lesser than you which is a really sad state of affairs.

userofsorts
In my experience there's a certain type of left wing person who has a lot of privilege, but are quite (selectively) blind to it if it allows them to criticise others whilst patting themselves on the back.

It's a strand of purity spirals, student politics, inability to appreciate grey areas and a strong desire to pay themselves on the back as the good guys. It's part of a very black and white world view where the right type of left person is moral and good and cares, and anyone else is bad and loves inequality.

Take it away from education, they're the type of people who will claim on principle that they'd only ever use NHS services and that anyone who doesn't is some sort of right winger who loves inequality. What they fail to see is that they're very fortunate to not be in the situation of the parents facing 6 months waits for speech and language therapy for their children with developmental delays, or the parents with children struggling with mental health who've been told they're not enough of a danger to meet the threshold for CAMHS.

It's very easy for a certain branch of the left to stand on their soapboxes about how they couldn't do anything that contributes to inequality when they've not walked a mile in someone else's shoes

@LolaSmiles your post has captured exactly how I feel.

And there we go
It's simply pointing out that you have an offer available to you that is good and good for your child (and is amusing that you claim you won't pay for anything that props up educational advantage whilst also being willing to pay for a range of things that prop up educational advantage).

I never claimed I "won't pay for anything that props up educational advantage". And I also have said nothing about what additional activities I do or don't pay for.

You are creating a straw man.

I don't think private schools are good for society. On that basis I don't send my children.

Through this thread I've also learnt private schools get a number of tax breaks on the basis of being a charity. In a society where we need more money in the exchequer, this doesn't seem right to me and I would rather see them pay tax as the businesses they are than increase other taxes (e.g. tax rates for most people through PAYE)

None of my position is judgemental on parents who go private. No skin off my nose what others choose to do with their money.

It's a strand of purity spirals, student politics, inability to appreciate grey areas and a strong desire to pay themselves on the back as the good guys. It's part of a very black and white world view where the right type of left person is moral and good and cares, and anyone else is bad and loves inequality.

And this. Judgemental piffle, based on your stereotypes and defensiveness rather than reality.

@Goldenbear - what is your definition of the “wealthy”. Please elaborate. Who classifies as rich?

And stop hitting us with Daily Mail cliches. Hardly anyone on here is lacking in critical thought. So it is just another cheap shot.

As I have pointed out previously, the failure of taxing the asset rich properly is a huge issue in this country. That is the failure of government aka their lack of courage in that regard because they are motivated by short term gain and outlook and tribal party politics fundamentally. Attacking some school kids and their parents instead of the real problem (including tax evasion, which is huge) is what is fundamentally at stake here. But hey ho, now that our borrowing costs are worse than Greece! , now is not the time, yet again. At this point, we need motivation and positivity and to get out of the post Brexit rut. We certainly don’t need more hate. Let’s put child health (physical and mental) and education at the top of the agenda and then let’s talk.

Thanks for this.

Yes it’s an odd reaction from the op.

And this. Judgemental piffle, based on your stereotypes and defensiveness rather than reality.
What on earth are you on about?

My teaching career is 100% state education and my children don't attend private school.
😂😂😂😂

I never claimed I "won't pay for anything that props up educational advantage". And I also have said nothing about what additional activities I do or don't pay for.

You are creating a straw man
But you said:

I don't think private school buys a better education, I think it buys access to an elite network. Bright, motivated people will do well wherever they go. And I'm not paying to be part of a system stacked against the less fortunate
Not part of a system that stacks againsy the less fortunate, but will top up a state offer so you are paying to be part of a system that stacks against the less fortunate:

None of things you list as "shouldn'ts" are incompatible with my views. Of course I can choose tutoring/sports clubs etc Confused.

There's nothing wrong with choosing tutoring and sports club etc, but is 100% paying to be part of a system that stacks against the less fortunate.

There are lots of children in the state sector who won't have parents with those resources.
Your children will do better as a result of you having the means to fund these things. Your children are more likely to score higher at GCSE than their less fortunate peers if you can find tutors and their families can't.

Make whatever choices you like for your children. Most parents make the best choices they can for their children.

Some of the op’s posts sounds like she’s built a picture that just isn’t correct.

The idea we’re all private school only mothers judging the use of state for others is imagined.

Indeed. We’re all caricatures of right wing ideologues apparently. Nope, social liberal that floats around the centre here. I lean left on some things, right on others.

I don't think you are all private school mothers at all.
But my thoughts about who you are and what your motivations are for posting on this thread can't be proven so I'm not writing them down.

Some of the pro private posters on here have very 'black and white world views'.

Anyway, tbh I think the OP is just enjoying floating LP arguments as this was KS's big banner announcement this week. Stats that support to hand and all that.

That's fine of course but there seems to be a lack of willingness to see any other point of view but theirs. I genuinely don't care much what other people do in terms of schooling, except that I truly lament that decent options are genuinely not available to every single parent in this country. I feel so grateful I currently have options and am able to exercise them. I lament not all children in this country have genuine access to decent education, It's an appalling situation. But demonising parents who choose private- for whatever reason (and any reason is legitimate, even if for not apparently socially acceptable reasons) - just isn't going to help. I'd like to think all parents choose an education that is the best fit for their own child. Sadly that is not the case, but most parents (and undoubtedly most of those on a site like MN) are making the best choices they possibly can- whatever that looks like.

Some of the pro private posters on here have very 'black and white world views'.
Very true.

The longer I work with schools, children and families, the more I find even more shades of grey on many of the issues. It's why I have no intention of congratulating myself for my choices because I know I'm fortunate to have not experienced other people's situations.

But my thoughts about who you are and what your motivations are for posting on this thread can't be proven so I'm not writing them down.
Well that's a bit strange 🤣

My step son went to private school and we struggled some terms to find the money as his mother didn't contribute. We went without holidays while she flaunted off to Dubai. We spent nearly £130,000 on his education and he flopped miserably in his exams. In my opinion, because of his results, it was a waste of money. My husband would have preferred to invest that money for his future for his first home. My children go to state schools as we can't justify more money on education.

You have already tried with they think I’m a bad mother tangent.

Which was wrong.

My motivation is to address some of your misconceptions on this

If you’re going to get put out due to comments on one thread to the extent you start another, as someone you were responding to initially I’m going to clarify what I really do think as your interpretation is incorrect.

You have dealt with that really poorly by getting the hump and using insults.

I don’t get why. Are you overly reactive as a person generally?

I’m upfront on what I think of the VAT proposal, the numbers don’t stack up and it’s a bad idea. As a user of state and private I still think that.

I never said I won't pay for anything that props up educational advantage. All parents (even very poor ones) pay for things that educate their children (books, toys, trips out). That's how society works so that would be a ridiculous position.

I said I'm not paying to be part of a system (private schools) that is stacked against the less fortunate (as they have very restricted access). That's a completely different sentiment.

I said I can pay for tutors etc but not that I do. In the same way as I can pay for private but don't.

You and other postera are twisting my words to suit your agenda. You are constructing a straw man of my views and then using the straw man to argue with me. I think this is intentional and you are arguing in bad faith, rather than to debate. I continue to engage because I want lurkers to see you for who you are, rather than the surface value "lefty liberals bleeding hearts have no point, there is nothing to see here with private schools as charities"that you are trying to project.

Considering the tax exemptions only affect the circumstances of a very small number of voters, this particular issue is not going to be a vote looser for the Labour party.

The thing is the education of young people is in all of interests so I'm not sure why people bandish around this complacency over the topic. So we have got to a point of failing provisions in state education so people are turning to private schools and this is the remedy??

I continue to engage because I want lurkers to see you for who you are, rather than the surface value "lefty liberals bleeding hearts have no point, there is nothing to see here with private schools as charities"that you are trying to project.
Again what are you on about?

I've not mentioned anything about private schools as charities.

I'm happy for a overhaul of the education system as a whole. I my children aren't in the private sector and I've only ever worked in the state system.

Yet because I choose to accept there's many grey areas and complexities on this topic I fail the purity test so need to be outed to lurker as the wrong type of leftie?

How strange.